can i include having a cleaner in my expenses?

[clankypanky]

Both myself and my partner work very hard from 7.30 in morning until last mindee leaves at 6. ATM I am only doing after school children but I used to have a full time little one during the day and it was so hard to keep on top of the cleaning. I have the opportunity of having 2 little ones during the day but if i do this feel the only way to keep on top of things and stay sane is by getting a cleaner. Bearing in mind that if it werent for having mindees I would manage fine without a cleaner can I put it as expenses?

This is the HMRC guidance on childminders' expenses. As you can see it says 'Reasonable costs of cleaning household items where the need for cleaning is as a result of childminding activities may be allowed'.

Note that the phrasing and context seem to imply specific, one-off cleaning (like for vomit in a sofa) rather than general domestic cleaning.

So you are in a really grey area here.

If you have rooms you only use for childminding, and the cleaner only cleans those rooms the cost would probably be allowed. If on the other hand the cleaner cleans the whole house and no rooms are exclusively used for childminding this would probably not be allowed. Anywhere in between is going to be a matter of what is reasonable, bearing in mind the general principle that to be allowable an expense must be incurred 'wholly and exclusively' in the course of business. here is the applicable guidance: good luck [sorry].

Oh poo, that seems a bit unfair seeing as my whole house is used as the business and if it were any other business then it would be permissable. Doesnt seem fair really does it...thank you for clearing that up for me!

How about claiming a portion of the cost, if you work out how long roughly the cleaner is spending on specific minding areas or mess caused due to running your business rather than laundry for instance.

Might be better than nothing if I can get away with it...thanks x

Hi,

There was this discussion a while ago about whether we could put the cost of a cleaner through our expenses:-

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/2300/842961-childminders-and-cleaners

(Hope linke works).

Thanks thats a useful link, the general consensus seems to be that you can. I might ring IR and ask them and explain to them that if it weren't for increase in minding I would be able to do it myself but it is because of minding more that I directly need to get a cleaner. I'll let you know what they say!

As I said, this is a grey area.

But clanky, that is the wrong way to look at it, and if you try to claim on that basis you will lose. The reason it may be an allowable expense is not because you don't have time to do it: you probably don't have time to cook a 3 course meal for yourself and your partner, but that doesn't mean you can claim for a delivery pizza.

Of all the posts on the Talk thread that was linked, I think only Tanith has hit the nail on the head.

The point you need to be clear on is that the children are making parts of your house dirty (to an extent that ordinary use of the house as accommodation would not) and so the cost of cleaning these parts is attributable wholly and exclusively to your childminding business.

I was thinking the same way as MrAnchovy - if you were a self employed business owner (out of the home) and needed to work a 60 hour week, you would not be able to claim for a cleaner for your home. But I would hope you can claim a proportion of the cost for the cleaning of the parts of the house that the children use. Surely a nursery can claim for the cost of cleaning, so I hope that a cm could as they are like mini nurseries? (Though I know in theory they often use nursery staff to clean during quieter periods)

Right wont tell it to them like that then, I think I will be need to be very careful with my wording!

I have a playroom unused by our family - so I put through the cleaning for that

I also put through cost of the cleaner.

I worked it out like this:

I have 7 rooms to be cleaned, 3 of these are used primarily (not exclusivly for CGT reasons!) by the mindees so I put 42% (3/7th) of the cost of the cleaner against tax.