Thinking of a nanny - currently using nursery. Some advice please

[Hadeda]

I'm going back to work 4 days a week and the increase in nursery fees (extra day plus extra child) means that we will probably pay just as much for nursery as we would for a nanny.

So I'm thinking about finding a nanny for my DDs, but this is very new territory for me so would be really helpful to talk to people who already have a nanny. I think my issue is that I can see benefits for me in getting a nanny, but not sure what it gives the girls. DD1 is currently at nursery and we have been very happy with that.

For me, I may have an easier evening as I'll get home in time for bath time rather than picking them up from nursery around 6pm and then starting the evening from a standing start (so to speak). Also easier mornings (although those are DH's issue) as we don't have to get them out anywhere. It will also give cover for days when one of them has a minor illness (i.e. the coughs and colds that keep them off nursery). And, with notice, the nanny might be prepared to babysit.

For the girls, they will be looked after at home and have one to one attention. I think I have two worries. First, I'm concerned whether they will have the same opportunity to interact with other children - DD1 has a few little friends at nursery that she talks about and sees twice a week. I'm sure the nanny would go to toddler groups etc but would they make the same group of "friends"? Second thought is whether they will have the same chance to do arts and crafts that DD1 has at nursery. It's mostly just smearing paint on paper and sticking, drawing with crayons, etc. Does a nanny do this? I must be honest, I hardly ever do this sort of thing at home myself but wouldn't like DD1 to stop doing this sort of stuff altogether.

Some other more "practical" questions:

1. DD1 will be just over 2 (probably 27 months) and DD2 will be 10 months. Would a nanny look after two such young girls?
2. I'd ideally like someone to work from 7:30 - 6pm (these are the hours DD1 is at nursery). Would a nanny work these hours?
3. Nursery fees will be about £23,500. Would a nanny work for this gross salary? Nannyjob said average gross salary is £25,500. But I've spoken to a mom I know locally who had a nanny, she told me a nanny costs around £90 a day - which is about £23,400 if the nanny was full time (I calculated that as 90 x 5 (i.e. per week cost) x 52).
4. I only need 4 days a week but know that might be hard to recruit a nanny. So I've thought about a nanny share. I have a friend who will be going back to work around the same time as me who might consider a nanny share. I've assumed she'll be working 3 days a week (which I know is what she wants) and her DD will be 12 months. The nanny would then be looking after 3 very young girls. One day would be my friend's DD only, two days would be all three girls and the other two days would be my DDs. Would a nanny do this or is it just too many small children?

Sorry, lots of questions here so thank you if you've read this far, and thank you even more if you have any advice for me .

you will love having a nanny I'm sure hadeda

both dh and I started with ours in nursery and it was a total nightmare that I will never ever repeat again (and won't have to because I'm not having any more ).

Having a nanny gave us much more flexibility and it meant our children bonded with another adult which we found lovely (in a different way to a bond with a parent but neither of us have family here so we liked the opportunity for the children to have other adults in their lives).

As athena was saying, you can now help pick and choose the activities they do and hopefully, you'll find a nanny who knows your area (shouldn't be too hard, loads of nannies in the SW London area) who can take them to classes etc.

We have never looked back since we made the swap and our children are happier and our jobs going better because of it.

Hadeda

I've been back at work in the City for 6 weeks, and getting a nanny has been the best decision I've ever made. I was careful about asking about sick leave history at interview, and make sure you double check it when taking references. However in my experience DCs are more likely to be ill. In my first week back at work DD had a tummy upset, not ill in herself, but producing enough poo that she would not have been allowed at nursery. It was so much easier having someone at home looking after than having to take my first week of work to look after her.

My one tip is that interviewing and recruiting took longer than I expected. I would use every available route, I used agencies, gumtree and nannyjob. If you don't like the agency candidates you don't have to pay them.

It's also handy having someone who can come in early and stay late if something is happening at work or if all the trains stop working.

if cost isnt a factor (ie £12 fine for you) then start your search and good luck

def ask about illness and check references CAREFULLY

I think if you can afford it then the nanny is a much better route in many ways. Your dds can go to a pre-school/nursery where the majority will go to the same school.

Also your nanny can do the dc washing/ironing/putting away.

I think it will be a much better quality of life for you all and well worth the extra financial cost. Please remember that it's worth paying more for a nanny with excellent references etc they are looking after your most precious things!

Hello

I have another question....

DH has asked around some of his colleagues about nanny recruitment etc. More than one of them has said that nannies prefer to be paid partly in cash, with the cash bit being unofficial (and so no tax paid on it). This makes me really uncomfortable. Actually, more than that, I just wouldn't want to do that. Please tell me this is just one or two odd individuals rather than a standard expectation for a nanny!

That would definitely not be the norm. As a live-out nanny I have a mortgage, so need payslips to prove my income.

Maybe they meant that the weekly activities budget was in cash, as that isn't really part of the nannies salary... it's you paying for your children to go to places.

def not the norm - though obv there are some nannys who do this as their employers cant afford what they want to be paid

its illegal to try and tax doge and it will be you the employer who gets caught and possibly fined rather than the nanny/employee

the employer pays my tax on my behalf, but it still comes out of my salary and it is what i am worth iyswim

It is not the norm on MN. It is of course illegal. But, I have heard many similar stories and I believe it is common. I image that togeth parents and nanny diddle the tax man and split the profit.

I used to have a nanny who told me all of her nanny friends were paid at least partly in cash.

And with the removal of childcare vouchers, I suspect this practise will increase and not decrease.

I'm not saying I support this practise. Of course I don't. But, I think it happens a lot.

Agree it must happen a lot. My current nanny has spent the last 6 years working in a wealthy area, and every single one of her past 3 posts has been cash in hand (offered by employer, not wanted by her). Even my very nice neighbour confesses to doing this. I think some people think nannies are expensive but they become affordable when you don't pay tax, which is quite laughable.

But the amount of Employers NI isn't really that high is it... typically I'd say its £1000-£2000 a year.

Income Tax and Employees NI are what the nanny pays... rather than the employer - though the Employer collects it on the nannies behalf.

If these nannies are not paying sufficient amounts of Employees NI, then what will happen later on... when they want to claim benefits, a pension, things like that. Maybe they are not thinking of the future... maybe rightly so if the state pension becomes less and less.

If a nanny is being paid CIH then obviously no one is paying income tax. As to why they are so short sighted in their planning I couldn't say. I expect most of them either are not British and don't plan on staying long enough for that to be a factor, or they don't plan to be nannies for very long... But there are a lot of professions who take money under the table. I don't think this just applies to nannies.

Maybe it's like "why do people speed when they know it is 1- illegal and 2- could kill someone" Who knows?

Hi

I had a daily nanny for my eldest daughter when I went back to work. If you can afford it then I 100% think it is the best arrangement for all concerned- you, your husband and the children. My Dh ( lawyer- crazy hours) was just not part of the childcare arrangements in terms of pick up and collects and when you leave it all to one person it becomes a bit untenable.

To be honest with two full on jobs as you and your DH have and two very young children I think that a nanny is the only way you will all keep sane.

I know you are concerned about costs but if at all possible could you pay for a 5 day week- having gone back to work on a 4 day there were so many occasions when I needed to either take a phone call or attend a meeting on a Friday morning. If you find a nanny that you want to keep long term then giving them the the occasional half day on a Friday would be a worthwhile investment.

One thing that you might look at is an Australian or Kiwi nanny- our nanny was from NZ- she did not have qualifications but loads of experience and fantastic references. They really do seem to have a sunny can-do perspective on life. We are now looking for an au-pair and are restricting the search to Aussie./ Kiwi nannies. We also found ours through Gumtree.

I would be more than happy to answer anyother queries you may have ie contracts, holiday pay, schedule etc

Best of luck !

A x

"nannies prefer to be paid partly in cash"

I think what they mean is employers prefer to pay partly in cash! I'm a nanny and part of my wages are cash in hand, but I didn't get much choice in the matter.

you do get a choice in the matter, you turn the job down

employers pay my tax on my behalf, but i have still earnt the gross amount

many employers dont see/understand this, and this is another reason why all nannies should speak in gross terms

Didn't have the luxury of turning work down.

Hi Hadeda,

Can I asks what area you are from? I think a nanny would be your best option with such a busy life style.

I work as a nanny myself and I find that the parent's feel they get to spend more time with their children than they would in nursery. Like you say you will be back for bath time and to put your children to bed least then you will feel you have seen them and that you can spend more time with them.

I am sure you would find a nanny share to work with you and your friend. I don't think the age of the children will matter as I have worked with three children around the same age and it has not been a problem and I have really enjoyed it. You just need to find the right nanny and someone you can trust.

As working as a nanny myself I always take the children to plagroups and play centre's to interact with other children this is great for the children as it is a different setting and they have more space and freedom. I am sure if you ask the nanny when you find one about this that they will do the same thing.

Also about the arts and crafts this is one thing I really enjoy getting messy and having fun with the children. You will find most nannies enjoy this and that your children will enjoy it more as they will have more one to one attention.

The hours and pay should not be a problem as they are normal hours for a nanny to work and I am sure your nanny will be negotiable about pay.

Hope this helps good luck and let me know how you get on

Hadeda - I am also a London solicitor, working four days a week, and I think you will find that having a nanny will make your life so much easier.
I would recommend not using an agency because that will work out a lot more expensive. The best way is to ask around - ask people you work with, other mothers in your area, etc. - someone is sure to know a great nanny looking for work.

Hello - thanks for all these responses. I've been reading, but not posting as have had both girls down with chest infections so things have been a bit hectic!!! It's very helpful to read positive experiences, esp from those in similar positions to me. I spoke to a nanny agency who said we should start looking around the end of Jan for an April start. I've been doing some thinking about the type of person we'd like and what's important to us and less important etc so hopefully by Jan we will be ready to go. Thanks again all

hope girls feel better soon

if you want a nanny to start april, i would look beg of jan not end as many nannies have 6/8weeks notice, so beg of jan means you have a few weeks to find a nanny, interview, check ref, 2nd interview etc then they can give (if in a job) feb/march as notice

Agree with Blondes, start looking earlier... may as well start putting internet ads out now, then get agency involved after Xmas.

Not sure I agree about the time frame. I recently started looking for a nanny to start March and- following Blondes' advice- I started very early (mid-November). However, I got very few responses from internet ads (maybe for other reasons, not sure) & also I was told by the agencies I contacted that mid-november for March is far too soon, that basically 8 weeks before you want the employment to start is time enough.

maybe i am weird having 8 weeks notice

but to me a month/4weeks isnt enough

i always when know leaving a job start looking 3mths beforehand

I also have 8 weeks notice. A month definitely isn't enough for me to find a job/them to find a replacement. When I graduated I started looking mid June to start September (wanted the summer off) and it did take that time. Only had everything firmed up the beginning of August and even then I wasn't in a job where I had to give notice. It does take time....some people are very lucky and find jobs/nannies straight away, some people are pickier.

I personally wouldn't hand notice in on one job unless I had a contract signed subject to refs for another so leaving it too long rules out annnies already in a job.

Maybe all 3 of us are weird then... as in my last job I had a terms notice, so about 12 weeks! I met the family I currently work for early April of the year in which I started and commenced working for them in mid July. Initial job description was done by them/the agency probably late March, following my acceptance subject to contract, the contract was fully agreed in the May of that year. Just been looking at that contract and it's got a 4 week notice period, so maybe agencies like short notice periods, whereas nannies may like longer ones once they are beyond the probationary period.

The agency may have nannies on their books who have been looking for a job for a while, or come early next year would have been looking for a while... thus that may be why they are suggesting you look at a shorter time period as they can then 'sell' you a nanny they have had on their books a while.

Nannies already in jobs may know quite far in advance that come a certain date their employer won't be needing them, or that their employer could cope at that point with switching to alternative types of childcare. I doubt I'm the only nanny to plan things ahead of time, taking into consideration what time of year is best to leave my employer. In my previous job I worked for teachers, so leaving at the end of Summer Term made sense... thus I needed to make that decision come the end of the Easter holidays.

I think (but I'm really not the expert here!!!) 1 month's notice is standard in lots of contracts. But what you guys have said also makes sense, its of course ideal to have more notice!