Nanny 20 weeks pregnant when she started job!!

[HantsPants]

Get this... I have just gone back to work 3 days a week, started on 1st September. Found lovely nanny. DD and DS love her. She has just told me she is... wait for it... 28 weeks pregnant and due on 23rd Jan!!! She was 20 weeks when she started, apparently did not know until she was 22 weeks. You may well be wondering why I did not notice her bump. Well, dear MNers, she is very generously upholstered and you can't tell (yes, really). Nanny loves job and DC and wants to take a short time off and come back to work with the baby.

I was initially supportive but DH dead against it. DD aged 6 and a breeze but DS aged 2 and very hard work not to mention has speech delay and needs nanny's full attention for his speech development and Makaton signing etc.

Do not want to pay nanny top whack to look after her own baby in my house and put her newborn baby's needs ahead of my own children's. Cannot imagine that this is anything other than problematic.

Thoughts anyone?

Presumably her partner could do it, or grandparents, or they could alternate.

I have a very good friend who had used her nanny since her children were babies, I think as she and her husband both work full time it was easier to keep her on even when the kids started school and the nanny had almost the whole day to herself. However this nanny took advantage and although it was agreed that when she unexpectly found her self pregnant she could bring her baby with her it didnt really work. She told the older children to be quiet when her baby was sleeping, she turned away their cleaner a couple of times as she didnt want the noise walking up her child and of course she couldnt do things like take the kids to the cinema. She also left lots of her stuff over the weekend, and without permission started putting up baby gates.

She has now become a childminder but I think like other posters - surely this nanny couldnt expect to start a job, after 2 months reveal she was expecting and then expect you to accept she would now be bringing her own child with her. 100% agree that this isnt going to work.

I believe in being fair to both sides, so I'd be inclined to follow the letter of the law, by:

• not paying maternity pay as (if I am correct) she had not worked for me for a month before getting pg;
• giving the minimum time off (2 weeks unpaid, I believe) and
• informing her that I expected her back without the baby because I deliberately hadn't sought a nanny share in the first place.

That is what my workplace would have done in the same situation (indeed they were very strict on the not bringing baby to work thing).

2 weeks off are you serious and shes to leave her 2 week old baby i think not what mother would be able to do such a thing. i think its shocking that a mother would expect another mother to leave there 2 week old baby.
i agree she is not entitled to be paid which means she can take more time off unpaid really as its not as if she is expecting her emplyer to pay her plus she will be entitled to maternity allowance so she could take 9 months then return to wrk without baby. i no some ppl return to wrk very early on but surely its the mother choice not an employers i took 5 weeks off but then im a childminder so i was still with my daughter not leaving her to go to wrk. there alot of talk about 2 weeks not being enough time for fathers to bond with there baby and that they should have more paternity leave so why expect a mother to be any different.
i know a girl who wrked in my fiances wrk she had no idea she was pregnant went to hospital with pain and had a baby obvouisly her wrk did not pay her maternity as the didnt even no she was pregnant (nor did she) but they did not expect her bk after 2 weeks infact i dont think they expected her back at all and in the end she didnt return back to wrk there. instead when her daughter was old enough she looked for another job with better hours

Boffmonster - the 2 week minimum is a minimum that a women is not permitted to work by law. The nanny is still entitled to the full maternity leave period (abeit without maternity pay if not eligible) and can't be forced back earlier.

she's entitled to the statutory 52 weeks maternity leave. by that time she may be happy to leave her child at nursery or whatever.

Well, I would take great care to make sure I had complied with the law on all counts. But no more or less. She has only been there five minutes and there has been a bit of being less than straight with her employer, which does not augur well for the future.

The nanny can still take the full maternity leave and return to the same job (without the baby though) - and she'll probably be entitled to Maternity Allowance which is the same as SMP anyway, so it won't make much difference to her.

I've been following this thread with interest as am likely to be in the same position of changing jobs while pregnant next year too.

If someone was totally upfront with me I would be more generous.

It has been nagging away at me, and have just looked at a few official websites, including Directgov and so on. I fear that because she failed to follow the correct notification procedures, she may in actual fact not be entitled to anything other than 2 weeks off and for her job to be held open in the meantime.

I reckon professional legal advice is needed as this is going to be a minefield.

Just to clarify, I am not convinced she is entitled to 52 weeks off.

She has actually been rather foolish in not telling her employer in time.

thats what i said boffy - as she didnt inform op that she was pregnant within the 25th week - yet she had known for 3weeks

obv it was a shock to her and wanted to sort out things in her head but she didnt do things legally

well if it was me and i was only entitled to 2 weeks unpaid maternity then return with no baby i was would just not return to wrk and take the full maternity leave on maternity allowance and start to look for a job nearing the end of my maternity leave. in no way would i be forced to do something that i didnt want to do like return to wrk after 2 weeks and leave my little new born.

According to Business Link the nanny will be entitled to take 52 weeks ML. Even if she has no intention of returning, she'd actually be better off not giving notice as she would continue to accrue holiday whilst on maternity leave. If she fails to return to work after maternity leave, would have you have to pay this in lieu?

From website:

Notification and confirmation of maternity leave
To qualify for maternity leave, an employee should notify you no later than the end of the 15th week before the expected week of childbirth (EWC) - the 'qualifying week' - of:

The fact that she is pregnant.
The expected date of the baby's birth.
The intended start date of her maternity leave - this cannot be earlier than the beginning of the 11th week before the EWC. The expected date of birth is given on the MATB1 form that the employee receives from their registered doctor or midwife to confirm that they are pregnant. Note that an employee can change the start date of her leave - see the page in this guide on when maternity leave can begin.

Failure to give the required notification
If an employee doesn't give you the required notification, she loses her right to start maternity leave on her chosen date.

You only have to make an exception to this where it was not reasonably practicable for the employee to give you notice any earlier.

For example, the employee may not be able to notify you properly if her baby is born much earlier than expected, eg well before the qualifying week. In these circumstances, she still qualifies for 52 weeks' statutory maternity leave. See the page in this guide on when maternity leave can begin.

So... does that mean you could expect her to work until the day she gives birth?

News: Nanny is not coming back after baby and has resigned. A few thoughts on the whole pregnant nanny conundrum

1. Always abide by the law. Your nanny may be sweet and would never get stroppy with you, but you have no idea who is pulling her strings. I know of a nanny who was hopeless and pregnant who successfully sued her employers for £10K plus costs.
2. Keep your cool. Even if you are hopping mad, you must not let it show. Your nanny is looking after your beloved DC and pissing her off is fraught with difficulty. The law is there to protect her interests and not yours as a small employer and she can exploit it to the detriment of you and your DC if she wants.
3. Put everything in writing, making it clear you are complying with your statutory responsibilities.
4. Speculating whether or not she knew she was pregnant when she started or started the job with the express intention of getting pregnant asap and getting maternity pay is academic. There is nothing that you can practically do about this with the law as it stands and even so much as the suggestion that she is not telling the truth about knowing could lead you open to a charge of discrimination. Legally, she does not have to tell you until she is 25 weeks.
5. She has to tell you by 25 weeks but curiously there is no sanction for not telling you. I was advised by Nannytax Legal that she could reasonably argue that it was not practicable to do so. So, yes, the employer is screwed all ways.

Looking for a new nanny now. For the record, both male and female applicants will be welcome.

5 - she has to tell you but if she doesnt then there is bugger all you can do?

is that right?

good luck with the hunt

It's a bit like tenants. They can basically be in a bit of a spot financially and offer to pay you as and when they can (which decent people do), whilst respecting the renatl property, or they can be completely calculating and decide they are disinclined to pay the rent because you can't evict them for three months anyway (which crooks do). In fact it is a criminal offence to harrass them for the arrears, including sticking up a great big sign in front of the house declaring that they owe you money and that nobody shouls trust them an inch (that would be my preferred non violent but assertive approach if it was legal). They can then run up massive credit card and utility debts during said three months (also leaving them unpaid so the next tenants have the pleasure of dealing with the debt collectors), trash your house, let the cats that they are not allowed to have there because of the lease piss all over the carpet and leave hairs all over the curtains, and generally behave like spoiled adolescents, even though they are in their forties and working in an IT job that brings in more than their landlord is on. They can then do a runner for good measure.

DO YOU HEAR ME ALAN?????

Basically the law can be a bit pants when it comes to small business.

O, o, and while I am ranting, they even asked the lady next door to do their gardening for them and left owing her over £100 and she is not well off at all.

Finished now.

Oh BoffMonster, sounds like you have been having a hard time with a recent tenant. Hope next tenants are much better.

HantsPants - at least you now know that she isn't coming back, so that may make it easier to recruit someone. Now that she has made that decision (hope you got it in writing) is she able to change her mind?

I wonder about Nanny Tax's advice on pt five. Although it would be risky to challenge her. £10K lawsuit [shiver emoticon].

so what is the point in having the 25weeks rule if when you dont tell your employer that you are pregnant then it doesnt make any difference

I wondered that, Blondes. It doesn't sound like natural justice, as tribunals would put it. Things should be fair, not weighted towards one side or the other. And women should be a bit more professional. 'I was scared of telling you' doesn't really cut it IMO. One just has to bite the bullet and explain. Like a grown up.

Nick, it was two years ago but I just bear grudges a long time ...

Interesting parallel with landlord and tenant law. Re point 5, only sanction for not telling you by 25 weeks is that she is not able to start her leave when she wants. eg Nanny tells you at 28 weeks she is pregnant and says she wants leave after 32 weeks. You say no, she can take leave from 36 weeks, she is thoroughly grumpy and then is off sick from 32 weeks anyway... like I said small employer screwed all ways. Other overarching prob is that she is looking after your DC and you must keep good relations and avoid risk that anything you do or say can be seen to be discrimination. Yes, Nick I have letter in writing.

Blood pressure going up all the time and presentation critical to job progression on Wednesday morning.

Otherwise life is just a walk in the park (NOT)

So could you say, no you can't work until 38 wks (as my friend's nanny intends to) you have to start it by X (if you got a good temp lined up?)

There is nothing my friend can do about this, accd to her HR department. Is really worried about the nanny being exhausted towards the end or even what she will do if the nanny goes into labour(which I can understand, my DD2 was born at 35 and a bit wks). I would be curious if other people have been in this situation.However, if I were facing only stat maternity pay I suspect I would do the same thing. And of course in an office you're allowed to. I caused a lot of inconvenience to my colleagues, it has to be said, not being better organised when DD2 came (thought I'd be late again).

Another offshoot from orig discussion sorry.