CM Club: question regarding registration certificate variation

[Numberfour]

My son starts full time school on 10 September so I wrote to OFSTED asking for a variation to increase the number of my under 5s to 3.

About two days after the letter was posted I received a phone call from OFSTED advising me that a variation would not be necessary because of the second condition of my registraiton which says that if any of the children in the under 5 group starts attending school full time, then the number os under 5s I may have can be increased by that number.

At first I thought that that was correct and so acting on OFSTED's advice I thought that a variation would not be necessary.

However, I realised that my son is not reflected on the registration certificate so to increase the under 5 numbers due to his starting school, I WOULD need a variation.

So, I called OFSTED again and was emailed an application for variation which I filled in and returned.

When I followed up on this, I was told that there was a 3 week back log and I would not get my variation in time for 10 Sept which is the date I need it from.

Obviously I became very frustrated having been told once I don't need the variation and then another time that I do - and that I would not be able to childmind the additional under 5 yr old until my cert came through.

I tried to speak to the Team manager of the Variations Dept but was told the he "was too busy".

I was then told that I do NOT have to have the variation after all but they would give it to me (this was in a third and 15 minute phone call) and that the certificate would be posted that day.

SO: my question after that censored rant (I was furious) is this:
with DS going to full time school, do I or do I not need a variation????

I think that I do and that OFSTED has advised me incorrectly. And that if they had not given me the incorrect advice in the first place, I would have had my certificate on time.

thanks for trawling through all that if you got this far.......

I don't think it's a variation as such, I think it is just a change to reflect the fact that your DS has moved up into the next age bracket. They might have a different name for that. I have always thought of a variation as being things like when you need 2 under 1s or 4 under 5s. When my DD turned 8, I just wrote to them and they sent me a new certificate showing 6 under 8.

I'm sure you will still have to wait for them to get round to it though. I am also waiting for something from them, which is taking ages. (and costing me money)

thanks, HSMM. maybe i should just do a straightforward letter to them then. but my cert says only 2 under 5's - my worry is that it will not be here by Thurs when i need it.

I'm in the same boat but have the same clause on my reg that you have - it's called the rising 5 clause - and it does cover you because you can still only have the same number of under8's iyswim. i double checked with Ofsted and they confirmed I don't need a new reg certificate. I think it depends who you speak to at Ofsted imo.

Numberfour - I had this last year when my dd started school. It states that when caring for children within he early years age group who are in full time education, may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education.
It also says that I can exceed this ratio to allow 4, and at specified times, 5 children in the early years age group for the named children on the variation request.

It still states that apart from this variation, I can only have 2 under 5's!

When I spoke to ofsted about it (as I don't think it is very clear at all given that my own child isn't usually on the certificate) they said that it does include my dd and have put it in the way it does so that if she is off school ill etc then I can still look after all the children I do.

It's very confusing and not one person at ofsted gave me the same answer as twice.

You do need to get rid of that 2 under 5s thing I'm afraid (and I know loads of people who are waiting for replies from Ofsted at the moment!)

yes, that's what I thought, HSMM.

and thanks, Southernebelle77. You're right about getting a different answer each time you talk to someone!

my problem is i need the variation by Thurs and if the bloody incompetent oaf had not given me the wrong advice in the first place, i would be fine! well, either he is an incompetent oaf or OFSTED's training procedures are seriously lacking.

Been following this as it affects me too - have just rang Ofsted who said that the 'rising 5' clause covers you for both your own children and mindees in full time education,as long as you don't exceed the number in the early years age group [ie 3 under5's, 1 under 1]. Made him go away and check with a supervisor . Am sure they make it up as they go along

underpaid, i think you're right! but the **ing problem is what if our insurance does not see it that way???

not that i intend to do anything stooooopid, but we need to keep our ducks in a row (a phrase i hate! )

are you just going to go ahead - because I will be doing so!

Yup - got his name, so will put it back on their shoulders if anything said. Only affects me 1 afternoon a week anway cos start a new job [mornings only] next week - yay

Have kept part time afternooners on to pay for my own childcare. Sanity is about to be restored chez moi - and might even start turning my house back into a home.

from 9am to 12pm four days a week I AM ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but that will have to change in Jan when my 3 reception treasures start school full time