CM CLUB - if you have more than 2 children napping..........what do you do????

[looneytune]

Just a quick question.......if you have more than 2 children who nap whilst with you, what are your arrangements re:

1. WHEN?

and

2. WHERE?

I'd be grateful if as MANY of you as possible could answer this, the more answers the better (even if you say 'same as so and so!!')

All will be revealed later

Older ones fall asleep where they land and then I put them on sofas etc, little ones in travel cots in choice of 3 bedrooms, which ever is least likely to be used by my own kids on that day, so they don't disturb them.

When we gonna find out what this is about??
You said all will be revealed

All 3 of mine nap at the same time in the afternoon (well hopefully!!)

Usaully go 2-3pm ish
Baby in travel cot in spare room along with her 3 year old brother who goes in the bed in there.

2 year old wont go upstairs so he usually goes to sleep on the bean bag or on the sofa.

I sit on the sofa with a coffee for 10 mins before frantically tidying up!!

Hi, very irregular poster, but anything to help.
After lunch (12.30/1.00ish), 18mths & 2 yrs, in travel cots upstairs in seperate rooms, but previous children have slept in buggies/on sofa with parents consent.

Thanks everyone for your time with this. The reason I asked is that I'm having to change my nap arrangements with immediate effect. Basically, Ofsted came recently and were not at all happy with my sleeping arrangements. Parents always been happy but the inspector said had she have inspected me in March (where I got a good with 6 outstandings), she'd have actually given me 'Inadequate' purely due to the naps. 2 reasons for this:

1. All 4 children were sleeping upstairs (seperate rooms for 2 of them) and she really wasn't happy with more than 2 being up there as (in case of fire) I could only carry 2 at a time (it didn't matter than the other 2 are very fast at 'bumping' down the stairs). So now I need to change my set up and I'm struggling a little.

2. She's got it in her head I'm not meeting the children's individual needs because they happen to nap at the same time. If she'd have let me, I could have given past examples, shown her an old baby diary etc. My naps are like they are now but only because this works for the children now. I tried to explain it works fine, we go to group/go out/do activities here... then have lunch then naps. I have the youngest going down at 1ish and the 2 year olds go down more like 1.30pm. The parents are insisting I keep this routine and I'm bloody furious this woman has made out I don't look at their individual needs. She implied I did this for 'my convenience'.

I've been through such a lot of emotions in the last week or so that I'm in 2 minds about continue to childmind but for now, I need to decide what I'm going to do moving forward as have a lot of paperwork to do and send to them asap to satisfy them.

For now though, I have a very very tired 13 month old ds2 as I've tried getting him to nap downstairs and he's having NONE of it!!! What am I supposed to do when it's the hols and I have 3 big kids playing downstairs? It would be great if they were playing nicely in the playroom but they want to be in the lounge right now!!! And I can't FORCE them into the playroom as that wouldn't be CHILD LED would it!!! (they are still under EYFS until 31st of this month!!)

Oh, and she kept referring to nurseries and saying they wouldn't do this etc - think she's one of those who wants all childminders gone!!!

Most of the parents are FURIOUS about all this but what can I do, it's not up to them!!

Sorry for the rant, had enough of everything tbh. But thanks VERY much for all the replies, I will have a think

Looney I think you need to put an Offical Complaint in,stating that the Inspector you had 3 months ago, gave you an Outstanding, this one, when you were doing EXACTLY the same thing, had deemed you inadaquate.

How can two inspectors, supposedly inspecting you from the same standards, give such different outcomes.

Also how when we are suppose to liase and work with parents, can you do something so against the parents wishes?

(And BTW, mine usually all sleep at the same time, and all upstairs, it is teh routine they are in, we go out most mornings, and none sleep in buggies as I was told it was not allowed, by the time we get back and have lunch, they all have to go up together or they don t have time for their sleep before we have to do a school run)

PLEASE PLEASE dont just give up, or accept this Inspection, please stand your ground.

It does seem to me that as she could not prove any of the allegations against you, she wanted to prove something else!

I came on to say I'm even more furious now.......I've just checked my letter asking for the variation and it says:

'I have 3 cots, so that there will be adequate facilities for the mindees to take naps, each child will have their own cot and bedding. Each cot will be placed in the spare bedroom, which is what happens now with the 2 cots at the moment, and each child is well used to sleeping with other children in the same room at the same time. My older son doesn?t have naps now he is older but if he needed one, he would use the sofa with his own blanket. My younger son has his own hammock in our bedroom for sleeping'

Now things changed after this letter but only placing them in different rooms. Her point was NO MORE THAN 2 children should sleep upstairs FULL STOP.

I can't tell you how cross I am about this.......this unfounded complaint is only going to be on record because of the nap situation.

SHOSHE - I may need help with fighting this - I can do this can't I???

Thanks

unfuckingbelievable.

complain complain complain.

Looneytune, I would have hit the goddam roof if an inspector had said that to me! No wonder you are in a tizz.

Don't accept this lying down. There are mountains of research showing that child led is not always the best for a child!! how can a child determine when he or she should go to sleep at night??? parents and carers must take care and nuture and love their children. And part of that is teaching them how to eat well, sleep well, play enthusiastically etc.

Tired children who do not settle do not play well or eat well or socialise well or learn or develop or have fun.

And if part of having all the little ones sleep together is because it is "for your convenience", why the fuck not? (can i say fuck on this thread???)

It means that you are refreshed too and would have had a chance to pack some stuff away, or prepare the next stage of the day or refuel by way of a cuppa or lunch or whatever!

Having 4 miserable, overtired, cranky children around you is not fun for anyone!

so so so so so cross for you!!!

how did the complaint arise, btw?

looney, find out who your MP is, write to him, in fact email him repeatedly till he reads it

Looney - my DH raised a valid point. Why are houses designed so that a family with 6 children could all sleep upstairs (let's say sextuplets for the sake of argument). 2 parents would have to choose 2 children each and leave the other 2 to burn, so ALL our houses MUST need rebuilding. Do what I said and get the fire inspector out for a second opinion.

All three upstairs in cots, one in each room........do you not find that parents prefer this? My parents hate it when they nap in prams / sofa / car etc, they like cots, own bedding, curtains drawn etc

As for fire risk, I am sure that in a fire I would be able to safely get them all out the house together.

absolute CRAP!!!!

As I said all mine sleep at the same time, and yes it is for ALL of our conveneinces.

I can be assured that all the children get a good long nap in a quiet environment and I can do all the bloody paperwork that ofsted demands and not have to do it all in the evening when, shock horror ,I might unwind and take care of my own family.

Please please complain and get the parents to do so as well.(BET IF YOU SAID YOU FELT LIKE QUITTING THEY WOULD DO SO AT ONCE)

in the meantime phone Ofsted and ask for another immediate inspection and lodge a formal complaint.. I have a written nap time policy stating all sleep at the same time and why and my inspector was fine with this..

so angry for you and you have had a lot on your plate.. what a stupid stupid stupid cow she is.....

M

Thanks everyone, you've given me the strength to fight this. I've gone from being very very tearful about this (honestly, I've been such a wreck about it all!!) to wanting to fight this all the way. Some of you may remember me starting a thread about their inconsistencies nearly 2 years, and I was going to take it all the way, BBC News South wanted me on for an interview and the press were contacting me but then I found out I was pg with ds2, thought I was loosing him at one point and backed down (after I was set up internally by someone at Ofsted - made a false very silly complaint up - long story). So, if I was willing to fight then and I personally wasn't a victim, I certainly should now shouldn't I!!!!!

Oh, they aint gonna know what's hit 'em!!!

Thanks everyone, it's thanks to you I feel able to do this

Just continue to do as you were. If the parents are fine with the routine then let them all nap at the same time.

Who the hell is going to know anyway, and when you get another visit, it'll be a long way off anyway, change it to suit ofsted for that day!

This is exactly the sort of reason why I have just given up minding, it has now become more about paper-pushing and rules and stupid bloody regulations than it is about actually looking after the children

How very annoying (sorry such an understatement!). I do try to arrange that the children have a nap at the same time as it gives me time to prepare other activities for them for the afternoon - although this doesn't happen now as one little one doesn't have a sleep. However, if a child doesn't need a sleep there is no way that I would leave them for my own convenience, the nap times have evolved, admittedly with some help from myself, and benefits us all. These inspectors certainly don't seem to singing from the same hymn sheet and I cannot understand how she can say that you are inadequate because of your sleeping arrangements. I would imagine under her criteria many childminders would be rated as inadequate-it's absolutely ridiculous. Until inspectors can get their act together and have some conformity in their judgements then their reports are pretty useless.

You should definitely argue your case and get the complaint revoked. There is no way that this should show on your report.

I can understand how down you must feel at the moment-this makes use all feel vulnerable-unless you work with others then it is always our word against someone elses. I hope you don't give up childminding because of this-it sounds as though the inspector is just trying to find something to fault you - and in actual fact there was nothing!

Best wishes

Looney Is this all to do with your other thread when ofsted made unannounced visit? The one when someone reported you for something?

Yes. Can't really go into it on here (not sure who I can trust!), was total load of rubbish and they were happy with that - just a malicious attack - parents laughed when I told them the list of allegations!!

Hi Looney

I've been reading how all the other minders do sleeping arrangements and it sounds to me like 90% of us would be inadequate if this inspector judged us. Totally mad and very about all of this.

And yes having mindees asleep is not different to your own children so if you have 4 or 5 kids who do you let burn to death, I'm bloody sure if their was a fire I'd carry half a dozen over broken glass if I had too.

Do you reckon they are going to insist that we get one of those inflatable slide things thay have on aeroplanes fitted on all the upstairs windows.

And a lot of nurseries have sleep rooms on the first floor if they have a 1:3 ratio how do they choose who to pick up first? same thing IMO so why she's wanking on about nurseries being better total load of bollocks

Well exactly the case with nurseries..why have they made what should be a lovely business(CMING) so blooyd difficult and almost not worth the bother.

Beats me.. my hubbie works in contract law and just laughs at all the arbitary judgements different inspectors come up with.. he says that unless there are agreed standards across the board then each judgement is the own opinion of an individual inspector and therefore fully open to question legally.

Hate that it doesnt seem to matter whether mindees and parents are happy, but just more endless stupid regulations.

I did post about my lack of a flood policy that the inspector questioned..thought about poisoning her tea.. I live in Birmingham for Gods sake..

chin up and go get them girl..

A nursery near me (in Berkshire) has an upstairs sleep room (at least they did when I temped there, can't imagine it has changed). With a staff ratio of 1:3, in the event of a fire how would they get all the children out? Their inspection report from March 2009 does not make mention of the sleep room (other than saying there was a sleep room)... so Ofsted must have felt it was fine.

thebody - dare you to put the following in a flood policy:

In the event of a flood, the days craft project will be to build an Ark!

What utter bollocks!!

You could have 6 children in your setting all awake and have toe vacuate, and if you had say 3 non walkers, you'd have to have thought about that and addressed that, they wouldn't say well you are deemed inadequate as you can't carry that many out then, why the diff for nap times?

I second getting a home visit from the fire service done asap and get specialist advice on that issue - in Scotland, the CC aren;t allowed to comment on fire safety issues as they recongise they aren't trained to do so and so the fire service take that on.

Fight it all the way Lt, we are behind you!

LOL nannynick

Looney how about in your letter you put the following

After assessing the risk of fire whilst mindees are sleeping the following precautions will be implimented

Smoke alarms will be fitted to all cots

Mindees will be wrapped in fire blankets

Buckets containing sand and water will be left in each sleeping area

Fire axes will be wall mounted for use in emergency

Seriously Looney, don't give up! fight it all the way.

Well my 3 little ones all nap at the same time, 1 year old is so tired by 2 ish she has to go to bed, 3 year old asks to go to bed at about same time (so am i supposed to tell him no??)and cos its so quiet then the 2 year old gets on the sofa or bean bag with his teddy and falls asleep.

Its just a routine we have now got into, am i now supposed to break it then?

Also if they didnt go to bed by about 2 they would not have had enough sleep before the school run.

The most kids I've had sleeping at the same time is 3 children in the same room (dedicated playroom), with their own travel cots and bedding. I have one little girl who loves my children's sleeping bag, so she sleeps on that. They're happy and content and sleep fine.

I prefer not to have anyone sleeping in the open plan lounge/kitchen as that's where the bigger child who does not sleep, plays during sleepytime. I am also clanging away in the kitchen/doing educational exercises and activities with him so it's not quiet and not condusive to sleep.

Goodness me, I am sorry to hear you have had such an unfortunate time with this inspector... she is not being reasonable at allI think

I am not a childminer, or even a parent who has a child at a childminers,but someone mentioned nap times

At DS' nursery nap times were very much prescribed- when he was small they napped 10-11 and 2-3 and as he got older that changed to 1-2.30 and I just went along assuming that they knew best

DS has never NEVER fallen asleep, ok never is an exagerations- he is has fallen asleep 4 times (and I recall every one!!) outside of 'nap time' for both me and nursery. I tried being child led- it led to an exhausted little boy/ baby. It seems you are doing the right thing by your mindees