Monday-only nanny: how to be fair about bank holidays?

[picklesmama]

Looking for advice as I am shortly to recruit a nanny on Mondays only.
I understand that legally she will be entitled to 5.6 days holiday a year in total (including bank holidays).
When at least four bank holidays per year fall on a Monday, how is the fairest way to work out her total holiday entitlement? Leaving her with just 1.6 days (or maybe less depending on how NYD/Xmas falls in the year) to spend as she wishes seems a bit unfair and also impractical, but then I don't feel it's fair I should pay in full for all the Monday bank holidays on top of a full 4 day paid entitlement.
Is it fair to offer her an additional couple of days unpaid holiday so she is able to take some holiday as she wishes on top of the 5.6 days paid holiday?
Sorry if this makes no sense at all... hopefully it will to someone who has been confronted with this before!
Thank you in advance for opinions/suggestions.

Firstly, I'd round up to whole days, so that makes it 6 days.

Bank Holidays 2009/10/11 which are Mondays (assuming holiday year start date 1-August):
31 August
28 December
5 April 2010
3 May
31 May
30 August
27 December
3 Jan 2011
25 April
2 May
30 May

So in the first two years, 11 Monday's of the 12 days are Bank Holidays/Public Holidays in England.

Can't see an issue with offering Unpaid holiday, especially if making that holiday optional.

I think your concern is that the nanny may want 4 weeks off in addition to Bank Holidays, which would push you from 12 days over a 2 year period, to 19 days (as 11 Mondays are Bank Holidays)... and want them paid, not some paid and some unpaid.

Question: Could the nanny work on Bank Holiday? If they wanted a day off at some other time of year, then maybe they could work a Bank Holiday Monday in exchange.

I think it will come down to negotiating with the particular nanny. By working on a Monday only, I would hope that they have considered the impact that would have upon how much holiday they would get. They may be happy to have additional unpaid holiday, they may be happy to have say 8 paid holiday days per year... though if you are happy about that is another matter.

So.. reading the above... She will need to take 4 bank holidays off, leaving 1.6 days to take when she wants. You are thinking of rounding that up to 2 and offering her an additional 2 days? So, it would work out to 8 weeks of holiday a year, which is obviously a very good offer from you and I would have thought to be totally acceptable to your nanny.

What about any holidays that you have each year? Do you go away each year? Would it be when there is a bank holiday? Or would you be giving the nanny additional day/s for that? What about giving nanny the 4 bank holidays + 2 Mondays of her choice and 2 Mondays of your choice? It is quite usual for a nanny to only choose half of her annual leave with the employer choosing the other half.

It is a tricky one with a Monday only employee, isn't it?

nbee84 - to complicate matters, it is more than 4 bank holidays a year... and it changes year to year. Thus why I worked it out for 1-Aug-09 to 1-Aug-11.

I have this dilemma as well with the monday only nanny. I was only going to offer 6 weeks (ie 6 days) hol a year, but this does not leave her with very much leeway, not even for a 2 week hol in the summer! I am not sure that I can really afford to offer 8 weeks hol, as I only get 6 weeks myself and it's already bankrupting me to have a nanny in the first place (the net / gross wage thing stung me as I am her second job so pay more tax)

I will not be working on bank hols, so won't need her to work then. Would offering 7 weeks paid hol a year be a fair compromise do you think - she could at least get her 2 week break in then?

Good point.

Tricky one - I think your suggestion of offering the option of a couple of days unpaid holiday may be the way to go.

It's so hard though isn't it? It does not make one look either generous or accommodating to say "well, i'm offering 6 weeks hol, but effectively that's 1 or 2 weeks you can choose to take, so if you want to take any more it will be as unpaid leave?" But I suppose that that is what I will have to do.

It's not ungenerous at all. Look at it this way if she is only workign on Mondays then she will only be working for 47 weeks a year. Which is normal.

Personally I would give her 6 days 'vacation' each year and give her the option of taking them all on Bank holidays, or of working on some of the bank holidays (mutually agreed) in exchange for days off at other times. And leave it at that. Then she can arrange her holidays around bank holidays if she wishes, or take unpaid leave for anything extra....

This thread is messing with my mind.

I thought the holiday allowance was increased partly to account for the bank holidays that many people are asked/expected to work and also so you couldn't just allocate bank hols as part of the previous 20 day requirement- so everyone gets the same amount.

I didn't think it was compulsory to take/offer bank hols on their allocated days. Can't you just offer the required hoilday days and split half for family to choose and half for nanny, whenever the parties decide, bank hols or not. Or have i missed the point?

Hmm, hadn't realised quite so many Mondays were bank hols! Thanks for pointing it out.
It's a tough one. I want to be fair but, like Sybil, I too am assuming I will be paying all the tax on her second job (not the nanny's fault of course but still pains me).
I don't work bank holidays in my job (and nor does my husband) so it would not be ideal to offer nanny the choice to work too many of them to be honest.
I am very grateful for all the suggestions and shall mull them over.

I've decided to offer 7 weeks inc bank hols and ask that 2 of them be taken in the school hols. This means that she can still take a 2 week hol next year. The year after would be more of a problem, but I cannot afford to offer more than this.

I'm also offering SSP only, so that if she's reliable I can pay her but if she has lots of time off sick then I can give her the stat minimum.

I'm seeing her tomorrow to discuss all this so will let you know how it goes. Many thanks for all the help on the thread, esp to NannyNick for your useful input

Offering SSP is usual these days, you will find that many of us on here will recommend that contract wise.

Good luck tomorrow.

Apologies if this is completely irrelevant to the thread, have only skimmed.

I'm not a nanny but a part-time public sector worker and the way it works here is that all part-timers get bank holidays pro-rata to full-timers, so I get 5 per year. As I work on Mondays, some years I'll have to use some of my annual leave to take all the Monday holidays. Other years I'll have days from my bh entitlement to "add" to my annual leave so it all works out.

Perfectly reasonable to expect her to either take a days holiday on a bank holiday that's extra to her entitlement, or a day unpaid. It's standard in other workplaces.

The logistics of this has been bugging me all day.

Allocating your 3 days to bank hols and assuming the nanny chooses not to take her 3 on bank hols. would leave 2/3 bank hols where you could agree to work with the assumption she'd be working.

Then if you don't need/want her to come in just tell her at the time and pay those days. You don't have to tell her this before she starts. For at least one of the days you might change your mind!

The money you actually pay out would be the same either way- oh unless you will be unpaid on the days you would need to take off to cover her non-bank holiday choices? or some other reason?

hmm- as an employee it feels fairer that the employer pays for possibly unworked days rather than employee having to take unworked days unpaid. Though legally think you can allocate when all her holiday will be- i wouldn't be happy though.

Or precontract maybe try to negotiate a swap of 3 bank hols with babysitting hours?

"Or precontract maybe try to negotiate a swap of 3 bank hols with babysitting hours? "

That sounds quite a good idea.

thanks nbee84, like i say, been thinking about it probably too much and still muddled.

IME my nannies have always ended up with more paid time off than they are "contractually" entitled to, mainly because our plans change or we take more holidays than expected.

Unless you are determined that you will never take holidays on a Monday I would suggest that you start at 6 days and see what she says. I have usually found that nanny contracts have proceeded most smoothly when you have contractually "strict" terms and are more generous in practice. If in your negotiation you agree a more generous outcome now then you don't get as much credit for it down the line IYSWIM.

In terms of the tax position, you need to agree a gross and not net salary.

"If in your negotiation you agree a more generous outcome now then you don't get as much credit for it down the line IYSWIM."

Yes, you are spot on with this. If a nannies contact says SSP and she proves reliable and you decide to pay her in full. Or you have 4 weeks + bank hols in the contract but in reality you get more hol than this from your own job, it will be seen as more of a bonus to her if you then give her an extra weeks paid leave.