self employed as a nanny

[fairimum]

ok so i know generally this isn't allowed if is permenant job/regular hours etc...

but would it be allowed if I worked for different people - this is just an option/idea at the moment as have several people wanting p/t hours

family 1 - want term time - 7.25-9 and 3-5.30 3 days a week for initally 6 months

family 2 - want ad-hoc holiday cover and baby sitting

family 3 - want ad-hoc holiday cover and ad-hoc full days in term time

so... is it possible?

thanks

You'd have to speak to someone at the tax office to get an answer on this one I think!

I know someone who works 4 days a week for 4 different families - one day each.

Speak with the Status Officer at your local Tax Office. They are the person who would be making the decision.

Thanks all!! I will give them a ring and ask

I am no tax expert but I think that it would be possible for you to be self-employed for families 2 and 3 in the above scenario but not for family 1. If you are working regular hours on regular days for one family then they must employ you. However, for the other families, if they call you and you have the option of saying yes/no to working for them on a particular day depending on whether you are available or not, then that is a self-employed situation. I believe it is possible to be both employed and self-employed at the same time in different jobs. However, would echo what others have said and speak to the tax office to get definitive answer.

let us know outcome please.

I think temp. bookings might work like this? You will lose holiday, sick, maternity, other employee perks though, and have to do paperwork yourself.

your working week sounds similar to mine:

family 1 ad hoc over night care
family 2 ad hoc evening care
family 3 3 afternoons a weeks set days and times
family 4 3 afternoons a week set days and times
family 5 1 whole day and one half day set days and times

Basically my status inspector thingy said for the family I work set days and hours I am an employee - for the ad hoc families I am self employed.

BH it's better for you if you are classed as an employee as you get better benefits and don't have to do a tax return. One family will get your tax free aloowance then the other 2 families will tax you at 20% (I think) so you may have a rebabe at the end of the tax year depending on your overall income for that tax year. HTH

Looking at the hours you have posted IME I think you may be able to get away with being self employed for family 2 and 3 and maybe family 1 if it was only for a few weeks. 6 months might be pushing it and turning it into more of a temporary employee role.

Thanks will give them a ring today!

I always understood that a self-employed person had control over when he or she worked, and whether someone else could be sub-contracted to do the job.

So when my cleaner goes away, she finds a friend to clean the house. Typically I have never met the friend before she shows up to start work. Also my cleaner or her friend(s) change the day they come to clean, and I am told before rather than being asked. All this is consistent with the cleaner being self employed.

Contrast that with a nanny. Hours of work are not really variable at the nanny's whim. Typically the identity of the carer is critical as part of the contract - previous references are taken up both in writing and on the phone, police check done, passports examined, etc. Now if my nanny said she fancied time off but had a random mate who could look after my precious darlings, that would not do at all. It is this which means nannies really are not self-employed, as I understand it.

Obviously if you can persuade the tax man otherwise good for you! But I wouldn't start being self-employed without tax office clearance.

Just another thought on benefits - I had a nanny share a while ago and the nanny got pregnant. Because she had two employers she was entitled to two lots of statutory maternity pay, apparently. I don't know if that might be a relevant factor for you.

Thanks, not managed to get through to tax office yet!

Expecting to not be able to be self employed to be honest!

As for 2 lots of statutory maternity - sounds rahter suss to me!!!

fridayschild that is the best analagy of why nannies arnt self employed that i have ever seen

I think that childminders are self employed though aren't they?? Don't they also have to do everything that Fridayschild said i.e. if I employed a childminder I wouldn't expect her to vary the agreed hours or pick a friend to do her job.

How comes childminders can be self employed but nannies cannot??

Childminders work in their own home and provide a service to multiple families.

They do not work in the child's own home.
They do not work exclusively for one family.

Childminders are running a business. A nanny isn't.

Thanks Nannynick.
Do you think its mainly dependent on where the children are looked after i.e. in their own home which becomes the business premises and therefore the Nanny become an employee?

I think a couple of the other Nannies on this thread are looking after children from a number of families so they don't work exclusively for one family so they are providing a service to multiple families.

(Just trying to get it clear in my head )

another reason CMs are SE is because they provide their own equipment.

PottlePoseysMa - you will never make it clear in your head. I have been trying to work this out for numerous years now and it still isn't clear. The reason being is that when it comes to Employment Status, there are no hard and fast rules... instead it's more about the general picture that is built up about each particular job.

So there are numerous indicators that could point towards a job being self-employed or of employed status.

The location could be a factor sometimes... CM's for example can write off a percentage of things such as heating/lighting against tax. Where as a nanny working in a private home could not write those things off.

If a nanny were self-employed, what could they write off against tax? There can't be that much.