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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Aupair-surely starting work at 7am shouldn't mean you get up at 7am?????

35 replies

Totallyfloaty35 · 01/06/2009 07:21

Got new aupair,she is nice girl,gets on with kids ok and her work is good standard.Just one little problem,her work start time is 7am and yet for past 4 work mornings i have had to bang on her door to get her up.As i was knocking her door this morning at 7:07 her alarm had just started going off,so i found myself saying loudly through her door"you start at 7,you dont get up at 7!"
Now i dont mind girls coming down in their PJs,but im getting bit annoyed with this,if i got up to go to work at time i was due to start i'd get fired.
I have had this happen with a few aupairs so i must be doing something wrong,anyone else got this problem?

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catepilarr · 05/06/2009 20:40

thinking about it i guess it would be better for both aps and host families if aps were technically employees as rights and duties would be clearer to both sides. there would be more paperwork as i understand it is when a family becomes an employer, eventhough there wouldnt be tax/ni payable.
or perhaps if there was a special aupair program similar to what they have in the us.

DadInsteadofMum · 06/06/2009 00:03

Cultural exchange is what provides the motivation for the AP as she spends her vaction/year out working in another family; and the employer needs to understand this.

An employer is somebody who pays another for services, where they dictate precisely how and where these service are to be provided on a regular basis over a period of time.

The only reason there is no tax/NI payable is because pay levels don't reach the relevant threshholds, nothing to do with the employer/employee status.

As I say fP is a very correct if a bit hardline, if you have no contract and aren't giving appropriate holidays/sick pay etc - then you are breaking the law and are leaving yourself exposed as an employer.

I feel that there maybe some class angst here about having domestic staff, whereas if you feel you are hosting a cultural exchange - well thats OK.

[puts on asbestos suit and stands back]

frAKKINPannikin · 06/06/2009 10:55

The link I provided to the UKBA says otherwise re: the WRS. I know the government are considering scrapping it but A8 migrant workers do still need to register.

"The Worker Registration Scheme was introduced in 2004 when new countries joined the European Union. It allows us to monitor where citizens of those countries (except Malta and Cyprus) are coming into our labour market, the type of work they are doing, and the impact this has on our economy.

You will normally have to register under the Worker Registration Scheme if you wish to work for an employer in the United Kingdom for more than one month and are a citizen of:

  • Czech Republic;
  • Estonia;
  • Hungary;
  • Latvia;
  • Lithuania;
  • Poland;
  • Slovakia; or
  • Slovenia."

Whether au pairs are an employee or not, well, they're being paid for providing a service so they are either a worker, employed or self-employed: guidance here. If they are just summer au pairs they could be considered workers but it's a very grey area. I take the view that their working hours and conditions are dictated by their employer therefore, legally, they are employed. As a governess I am: an employee, more specifically a live in domestic employee, and even more specifically a governess. An au pair is an employee (with all the rights of an employee), a live in domestic employee (exempt from NMW) and an au pair.

I compeletely agree it's still a cultural exchange - that's the motivation behind it for the au pair and, I hope, the family and we shouldn't forget that so all this legalese needs to be read within that context (but most people know that it's the idea of an au pair and they don't know the legal side). It's just so much safer to put the legal framework around it as well and it's easier to move from hard to soft over time than it is to go from softly softly to suddenly throwing the book at the au pair. I think it also shows a measure of respect for the au pair if you treat them like an adult, impress on them that it's a responsible job and let them know about their rights and responsibilities as well. Having worked abroad a fair amount I've always felt on surer ground when employers have sat down and explained: these are you rights in law, this is what the contract says (and here is a translation for you if necessary), this is how much you're paid, this is what you have to do, this is how much holiday you get, these are your hourse, this is what we pay on your behalf, this is what you get if you're sick.... It's never stopped me bonding with the family or benefiting from the experience of living in another country.

I think au pairs should have been treated like this before, certainly ones from the EU/EEA, but now the visa category has changed it's a good time to put the things people should have done before into practice but whilst maintaining the spirit of the exchange.

frAKKINPannikin · 06/06/2009 10:57

But yes, I am hardline. It comes from doing advocacy and advice work!

It's difference between a steel tube wrapped in cotton wool (a clear expectation and fluffy edges) and cotton wool which is suddenly shoved into a steel tube (fluffiness which turns into legal hardball when things don't go right).

catepilarr · 06/06/2009 11:45

fP - as i said you dont need to copy the home office website for me. and if you need see why i am telling you that aupairs dont need to register here is the letter from bappa

Have some more information about WRS scheme from a colleague -
The WRS scheme did not apply to au pairs as they were not considered workers. BAPAA received a home office letter confirming this. We presume it still wont apply now because au pairs earn less than minimum wage so cannot be classed as workers!
A contact from the UK Border Agency said WRS scheme should finish in March - you could try the Home Office Border Agency website or their telephone helpline for more information.

Although there is no Aupair visa any more the Au pair scheme does still exist as far as BAPAA is concerned ? it is just the visa that has disappeared and become Youth Mobility visa.

frAKKINPannikin · 06/06/2009 19:32

catepilar that letter really worries me if these poor au pairs are not considered as workers. What about sick pay and holidays? It's a legal minefield waiting to happen. The minimum wage point is very concerning as there are nannies working for less than NMW. Are they not workers either? And re: the WRS techically it should have ended at midnight on the 30th April this year but noone really seems to know whether it has or not, again better safe than sorry and try to register only to be told you don't have to, wouldn't you agree? And that is advice from the UKBA to a Slovak girl about to go an au pair in the UK so they don't even seem to know themselves!

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this point but I would advise anyone with an au pair to err on the side of caution and stick to the letter of the law.

DadInsteadofMum · 06/06/2009 20:23

Not "workers" for the purposes of WRS maybe, but still employees under employment law - qualification for NMW is not a test for employee status.

catepilarr · 06/06/2009 20:31

re wrs - it has been announced in april that wrs will continue until at least 2011 (see here www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/Government-keeps-work-restrict )

i agree that in doubt its better to send the registration and get it rejected. but i dont think there is the doubt - the letter is not to a slovak girl (how did you get that impression? ;)) but an email sent to me by british aupair agencies association explaining what guidelines they have from home office (ok i know its called uk border agency now). surely if aupairs had to register everyone would know about it - wrs has been operating since five years ago.

catepilarr · 06/06/2009 21:50

i dont know since when aupairs from western europe were able to come to the uk without any visas. but i am sure its more than 10 years and never during this time they were classed as workers. absolutely nothing has changed for them so why should they be classed as workers now?

frAKKINPannikin · 07/06/2009 14:30

Sorry not terribly clear, the Slovak girl is someone I know here in Paris, currently an au pair, who is going to the UK next for the summer - 6 weeks so more than a month - and she asked me about the WRS, assuming I would know by virtue of being British I suppose! As it happened I wasn't sure whether it was still going etc. so told her to contact the Home Office, which she did and was given the advice I relayed above: better try register and not have to than not bother and get caught. Hence my interpretation that they don't know what they're talking about themselves.

Technically (legally) Western European au pairs were employees but most people only made that connection if they paid over the tax threshold. The problem is people really don't know about employment law because they don't consider themselves employers. As DIOM points out employment status is not determined by NMW. Also au pairs used to have a legal right for classes to take precedence over work (work had to be arranged around classes not the other way around) and that's no longer the case so at least one thing has changed.

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