Police reprimand. Should Ofsted be informed?

[sontrouble]

I am a childminder and ds 16 has stupidly been experimenting with cannabis outside of the home and has been arrested. He has received an official reprimand. Does anyone know for sure whether this is this something that Ofsted need to be informed of? I don't trust their telephone staff to give me the correct answer as they have often got thngs wrong in the past when I have called them.

Yes I would think they would need to know - although it is outside of the home, I would make sure there is none in the home, including pockets of coats so that your mindees don't get hold of it.

I assume this would show up on his CRB check so yes they should be informed. Better safe than sorry, you dont want a parent finding out and reporting you.

Yes - Ofsted would want to know about anything that "affects the suitability" of anyone aged 16yo or older who lives in your house. Explain the circumstances in writing, enclosing a copy of the reprimand (I think he should have been given a form from the police?). Ofsted might want to know what you are doing to ensure there are no drugs in your house, but otherwise with a minor thing like that for a teenager where it wasn't on the premises I doubt they'll be too concerned.

Thanks everyone. Yes I will copy the reprimand and send a letter I think. There isn't any danger whatsoever to my childminded children, but I am very aware of how it might appear to new parents if I have to disclose anything to do with drugs. Ds is a good lad and knows how stupid he's been. I am glad he's been caught now. Being arrested, fingerprinted, DNAed, photographed, and put into a cell was a sharp reality check for him, and preferable to him continuing in secret without considering the consequences.

Sontrouble - can't imagine how you're feeling - I have a 16 year old son recently CRB'd (everything ok by the way) and you must be going through hell.

I childmind and I think as our own children get older it doesn't get any easier. My 16 year old is round my feet every day now as he finished school couple of weeks ago and is doing exams/revision. It actually creates extra work for me (what with my 13 and 10 year old now off for half-term).

But sometimes I do reflect and feel like I am not giving them enough of my time/attention!

Thanks Scarfmaker. I could write an essay on how I feel about it, but mainly it's greatfulness to the police for a) catching him and b) being so brilliant dealing with all of us and offering future support.

It's so true that it's not so simple as 'childminding so that you can be there for your own children'.

The hours of work and attention it takes to be a good minder mean that as your own children get older they are sadly often 'in the way' or you are there for them in body but not totally in mind.

Childminders are certainly not immune to the guilt of a working parent.

Hopefully when I am retired and a grandparent I will be able to help out my own children as I know how tough it will be for them to balance family and work.

Dear sontrouble i would strongly reccomend that you DONT inform Ofsted.
I have 2 teens and thank goodness I havn't had to deal with this, though that's not to say more by luck than judgement.
A strong reprimand will NOT show up on any records as its a way for the police to give a bloody good telling off to kids who are generally not known for being in trouble,
so they dont end up with a record.
So your ds had a clear Ofsted when he was checked and will do again.
Your son has been a prat, (so were we all at that age,) he will probably never do anything else like this.
If it was an offence against children then thats totally different.
imho.. keep it Zipped and keep a good eye on him as far as you can.. good luck..

Reprimands do show up on enhanced CRB checks. This is from the Criminal Justice System website: "CRB Standard and Enhanced disclosures contain information about convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings retained on the Police National Computer (PNC) and the equivalent Scottish and Northern Ireland systems."

A teenage boy dabbling in cannabis outside the house is not something Ofsted would get overly panicked about as long as you ensure that minded children don't come into contact with any drugs or drug use. Once you fail to inform Ofsted of police involvement with members of your household - which is a legal requirement - there would then be a question mark over your own suitability.

ok understand your point but she has to be careful in informing parents, even if she tells Ofsted.
All of my parents have just little ones and obviously can't imagine the problems faced by having teens and may be very frightened at any mention of drugs.. she may loose business for no good or sensible reason.

To Sontrouble, have all my sympathy and bet it scared him whitless.. my own ds got totally drunk a few years back at the local carnival, aged 14!!!! hasnt done it again.. oh for the days of wondering when to potty train and drop the last night feed.. how utterly simple life used to be..

According to this page www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/eyfs/site/requirements/welfare/suitable/index.htm providers must inform Ofsted of: "particulars of any significant event which is likely to affect the suitability of the early years provider or any person who cares for, or is in regular contact with, children on the premises to look after children."

I can't find anything which makes it a legal requirement for any police contact with my family to be reported. I'm not saying that's not true, just that I haven't seen it within the eyfs requirements.

Ds hasn't kept back any information from me regarding his reprimand (I had to be present through his interviews with the police etc) so if I (as the provider) don't think that his reprimand affects his suitability to be in occasional contact with children, should I still tell Ofsted?

I am confused now as I absolutely don't want to not tell them if I really have to, but equally don't trust Ofsted not to insist on me informing all parents in writing which could certainly severely spook some of them and damage my reputation locally. Ofsted really have told me some very misleading things before when I have spoken to them on their main telephone line.

I feel like I would rather quit childminding than have to tell the parents.

Sontrouble

If I were you, I would sit tight until you are absolutely sure whether it is a legal requirement to inform Ofsted of this type of reprimand. My son did something very similar and same outcome as your son, this did not show up on his CRB so do check first.

poor you
my boys are nearly 12 and 13 and i am worried now boys can be very silly sometimes to be big in front of their mates and i have it all to come

phone the police would be my suggestion and ask if it will show up in certain forms, your son may need to know this anyway for jobs he may do

The trouble is "significant event" is not defined anywhere outside the statutory framework. That requirement was the one I was referring to though. I would certainly argue that any sort of police involvement where "action" of some kind is taken - even if it is just a reprimand - counts as significant. If you had been the one getting the reprimand (or caution as it would be for an adult) then as you are someone with a notifiable occupation the police would have informed Ofsted about it themselves. As your son is a member of your household you are the one responsible for doing so about him.

I'm still not saying that anything bad will come from you notifying Ofsted - teenagers and minor drug matters are not going to lead to you losing your registration! Lots of people have direct experience of things like that in their pasts, and you would probably be surprised to know just how often things show up on CRB checks but are okayed. You also can't be forced to tell your parents about it and Ofsted can't tell them either - that would be breaching all sorts of data protection requirements.

Ringing Ofsted for advice will probably not get you very far unless you can speak with someone actually on the compliance team (and you don't tend to get put through to them unless you have a specific name or a direct line). The phone advisors would just tell you to put it in writing. If it's more advice you're afer I would recommend the NCMA or you local Early Years team.

I have had some professional involvement with these sort of situations in the past, and all I can say is that it is a legal requirement to notify Ofsted about things that might affect the suitability of a member of your household, and reassure you that this isn't a really big deal and they will probably only write back and check how you're making sure there are no drugs or drug use on the premises. Even if someone rang Ofsted and claimed that your son was selling cocaine out of his bedroom you would probably only get an Inspector stopping by unannounced to discuss the allegation with you and check for any dodgy looking coke-heads passed out in your living room!

Ofsted Must be informed as the op states he was arrested.
On a different note, should the op and son want to go on holiday to USA, he would have to apply to the American embassy for a visa to allow him to travel.
Pretty serious huh, and that's why Ofsted must Be informed.
I am aware if this as a collegue of mine was in the same situation.

I think you should definately write to ofsted and inform them along with any paperwork you got from the police which states that they are taking no further action, I would also tell them what steps you have put in place to monitor the situation.

I feel very at your situation, and can understand that you feel some of your parents might take it badly.

I got a link on here once about outcomes of ofsted complaints (sorry but can't find it now I think it was from a post nannynick did, if he reads this perhaps he will be kind enough to pop it back on) anyway it made quite interesting reading, one of the cases was about a minder who's son was caught with drugs and minder hadn't informed ofsted, her son's prob was obviously a lot more severe, they found stuff on premises and their were some other issues as well, but the key info was that the minder did not inform them of a significant event relating to a person living on the mindees premises (someone contacted them anon) the minder lost her reg, perhaps if she had contacted them first she may not have.

Please don't loose heart and give up minding, the fact you are so upset proves that you care and want to do the right thing with as little damage, I'm sure your not the first minder that has had this problem and you certainly won't be the last, I'm sure ofsted will be very helpful I would suggest you speak to someone in compliance, rather than switchboard staff as they should be able to advise you straight away, I doubt very much that they will insist you tell the parents of mindees, as I understand it disclosure is only if they give action (make sure you send in risk assessment etc).

Best wishes whatever you decide and good luck

Sontrouble,
it could have been a lot worse.. it happens to everyone, not drugs necessarily, but all teens do stupid things, its how you,and they, deal with the outcomes that matter.

I take on board exactly that you dont want the parents to know, its none of their business. If it were me I definatly WOULD NOT tell Ofsted.

Bradford mum, our friends recently travelled to the U.S.A, he had convictions for a violent offence some years back when he too was young and silly and they didnt give a stuff.
Her son has allready been Ofsteded so why do you want to drag it up with them now..

As you say its NOT a significant event that affects your ability to care for your mindees, he was out of your house at the time.

totally agree with Ironlady SIT TIGHT AND SAY NOTHING. you will regret it if you do I think

Thebody I can't say I follow your reasoning there - "Her son has allready been Ofsteded so why do you want to drag it up with them now." Ensuring the suitability of people working directly with children or living in the same household is an ongoing process. CRB checks are out of date the minute they are printed, that's why there is an obligation to tell Ofsted if anything happens.

Just to take things to more of an extreme - if an adult partner of a childminder was convicted for a violent assault, would you suggest that the childminder should not tell Ofsted since that partner would have been "Ofsteded" when he first moved into the house? Or if a childminder was charged for drink driving - it's okay because they would have been checked by Ofsted when they were first registered? If your child attended a nursery, would you be happy if staff were only checked when they were hired and didn't have to tell the manager if they were cautioned/reprimanded by the police for possession of drugs?

From my perspective I would not be bothered about a childminder's teenage son having a brush with the police over drugs, but I would be concerned if the childminder knew she was legally obliged to notify Ofsted about the incident but decided not to. That would make me wonder what else they weren't telling Ofsted about and what other legal requirements they might not be complying with.

I think to sit on it and do nothing - should anything come of it's going to look very bad on the CM, I really wouldn't advise anything other than total honesty with Ofsted and let THEM decide if they need to be officially informed about this or not.

Agree with squirrel42 completely.

A family I mind for have an older son age 16.
When he was 9, there was an incident at school. A girl who sat behind him brought in a pair of scissors and said she was going to cut his hair.
He grabbed them off her just as the teacher entered the room.
She then called the police and the young boy was taken to the police station.

Fast forward 3 years and the family want to go to Florida.
They make an appointment at the Embassy in London, where his visa is refused.
He can re-apply in 10 years.
This is fact. He was 9 years old at the time.

Ofsted MUST be told.

I have decided to inform Ofsted and have written a letter ready to post tomorrow.

I take on board your experience and advice Squirrel and would rather be honest than try to argue at a later date a - in my opinion valid - academic point with Ofsted (namely that the reprimand, although a significant event, does not affect my son's suitablity to be in occasional contact with childminded children - ie after school hellos to them all as he pops into the kitchen for a snack).

I am struggling to make the connection with my question to travelling to the USA, but do agree with the reasons for declaring police actions following CRBs.

Fingers crossed and thanks to you all for your support and understanding.

Good luck sonintrouble; I very much feel that you are doing the right thing and complying with the legal requirements (and those are not always one and the same, I know!). Like I've said above I'm sure Ofsted will not consider it to be a major issue so long as there isn't any risk of minded children being exposed to drug use (which as you've said there isn't in these circumstances). From their perspective it would be worse they found out later somehow and then considered that you effectively "couldn't be trusted" to notify them about things like police involvement with members of your household.

If you are okay with posting about this at a later date I'd be very interested to hear what Ofsted say in response to your letter.

Can you talk to SCMA or CMA advisors?

Yes, I will let you know the outcome. Thank you.

skramble, thanks - I'm afraid I'm a terrible cynic and don't have much faith in NCMA either.

I think the cover your own back instinct of anyone working for the NCMA would be to tell me to inform Ofsted in writing. I can't blame them, but would prefer to listen to the invaluable and considered responses of experienced mumsnetters and then then to make up my own mind.