Complaining about a cm

[ChasingButterflies]

I've decided I need to put in a complaint about our former cm, who "dumped" ds by email, saying she "didn't have months to spend settling him in" and not to bring him the following day. This was after two and a half weeks - two weeks of which had been without any settling-in issues.

I could do with some advice on the following questions:

do I complain to the council children's information service, Ofsted, both or somewhere else?

which of these issues should I mention:

• being told not to bring him back, without any notice period, by email
• having then had a discussion with her by phone (we rang her) in which she agreed that it wasn't reasonable to expect a 16mo to have no problems settling in and she would continue to take him, she then emailed again the same evening to say no, she wouldn't
• that despite repeated requests from us, she didn't give us a contract (she said she had been busy and would get round to it)
• that she insisted on being paid cash only and didn't give receipts
• that on the last day she had ds (and insisted I come to collect him early because he was "demanding her attention" and she "couldn't get out of the house"), we know for sure there were five mindees aged three and under there: two 3yos, two around 16mo, inc ds, and a 7mo baby. Our new, fantastic cm tells us that former cm would be unlikely to be registered for that many mindees
• that on at least one other occasion when ds was there, he was one of four 3s-and-under
• that she would not let us into the property at pick-up or drop-off; ds was always strapped into his buggy waiting at the gate
• that on the one occasion i went into the house at pick-up (I followed her in to get ds as they weren't at the gate as I was a bit early; he was still in his coat and in the buggy though ), there were 7 children there, inc ds. She told me there was another cm in the kitchen - adjoining room though I didn't see/hear her - and 4 of the children were hers. cm then rang me about a minute after I left - I was still in her road - to say one of the other cm's mindees had bitten one of hers and they had all left, so it was just her and her 2 mindees now. Would be the quickest movement of pre-schoolers ever witnessed, I thought!

Sorry to be so long-winded, not sure how much of this is relevant, or outside regulations/good practice.

Should also add that I am a HUGE fan of cms, ds's first one was fantastic, as is his new one. It's just that the more I think about this one, the more I wonder about the implications of her very unprofessional behaviour for the children still in her care, and any prospective parents who might see her in future...

Initially a complaint of this nature I feel should be made directly to the CM. A lot of what you write seems to me to be contractual issues, so not something the regulator (Ofsted if in England) would consider.

The following however could be reported to the regulator, it could be phrased as 'I have concerns that a childcare provider is caring for more children than they are registered to care for.'

• we know for sure there were five mindees aged three and under there: two 3yos, two around 16mo, inc ds, and a 7mo baby.

However, you should first check on the Ofsted database how many children your x-childminder was permitted to care for. You need to know their Postcode and registration number to find their details at Ofsted providers list.

• that on at least one other occasion when ds was there, he was one of four 3s-and-under
• that she would not let us into the property at pick-up or drop-off; ds was always strapped into his buggy waiting at the gate
• that on the one occasion i went into the house at pick-up (I followed her in to get ds as they weren't at the gate as I was a bit early; he was still in his coat and in the buggy though hmm), there were 7 children there, inc ds. She told me there was another cm in the kitchen - adjoining room though I didn't see/hear her - and 4 of the children were hers. cm then rang me about a minute after I left - I was still in her road - to say one of the other cm's mindees had bitten one of hers and they had all left, so it was just her and her 2 mindees now. Would be the quickest movement of pre-schoolers ever witnessed, I thought!

The above are also worth mentioning to the regulator, as it may help them establish if overminding happens occasionally, or regularly. When contracting the regulator, be as specific as possible about the Date and Times.

Chasing Butterflies - if you had no contract and paid in cash do you have any physical evidence of your DS being cared for by that CM?

It doesn't sound good, be sure of your dates and times if you do take things further, CM are required to keep registers of all children being cared for, however from your thread I doubt this will be the case for this CM

Did you see her certificate, as she should have it displayed for you to see. This would have told you that she could care for a certain number of children.

Did you claim child tax credits, or did you mention them to her? (I'm just wondering whether she actually was registered and panicked at the thought of the tax office being involved) (( sorry, I'm married to a policeman so tend to be suspicious!!))

Sally x

Thanks all.

She was definitely registered - we got her details via council CIS and saw her Ofsted report. I don't remember how many children it allowed her to mind, but then again she'd told us that it would just be our ds and two others, and we had no reason then not to believe her. But I will do as nannynick suggests and check the Ofsted database, thanks.

atwork - that thought crossed my mind too. But I do have some emails she sent to confirm ds's days and times, plus the two she sent to tell us not to come again, so that surely is some proof that he was going there on an official basis?

Bradfordmum, she told us from the start she didn't accept childcare vouchers as she found them too much hassle...

If I complain to her directly, will that have any consequences? Couldn't she just ignore it?

I'm Daniella. I am strating a childminding service in the greenwich se10 area in July/August. You can contact me on 07535743192 for further details.

Tell friends and family that may be looking for childcare for children b/w 3mths - 5yrs.

No, I didn't mean the vouchers such as Buzy Bees or Accor, I mean the tax credits that you can claim to help with your childcare costs.

Personally, I think she sounds a nightmare! Accepting vouchers is to help you, the parents and not to make her life easier not to accept them!

Wrong place Daniella Start a new thread for that... but put lots more detail such as costs, hours, plus confirm you are Ofsted Registered.

" having then had a discussion with her by phone (we rang her) in which she agreed that it wasn't reasonable to expect a 16mo to have no problems settling in and she would continue to take him, she then emailed again the same evening to say no, she wouldn't "

You say this followed by "we know for sure there were five mindees aged three and under there: two 3yos, two around 16mo, inc ds, and a 7mo baby."

Why on earth were you continuing to seek care from her if you saw she was over her numbers ??
TBH I would find it difficult to believe your complaint - you can't have had too many concerns or you wouldn't have wanted your child to go there.
However good luck ..

I have NEVER heard of Ofsted agreeing to more than 4 children under 5.

When iw as a CM, I was registered for 4 under 5s, but they were named on my file, becasue it was 2 sister, and 2 brothers. I very rarely had all 4 of them together, but I needed to be covered.
However, the things you say about 5 under fives - well I can't see that being allowed, espeically not if they weren't even siblings.
The having coat on and in buggy byt eh door would worry me, and you say she always seemed reluctant to let you in the house. A good CM will not mind what time of day a parent tunrn up- and wouldn't hesitate to let them in either.
It's a requirment to have a contract (at least it was in Scotland)

Babbi, we didn't realise at the time dp rang her to ask her to reconsider (which was on the same day she dumped us) that she'd had so many children there. Dp had dropped ds off that morning and later mentioned meeting some of the mindees - I had picked him up and cm mentioned different ones also being there. When going over the bizarre situation in the following days, we realised it sounded not right.
We only later found out when visiting new prospective cms how unlikely it would be for a cm to be registered for so many children.

TBH in the first 2 weeks, we didn't really have concerns - ds seemed to be settling well; we thought the contract/cash thing was odd, but given that she promised to give us a contract asap, I don't think we were being unreasonable to believe her!

We didn't realise what the Ofsted restrictions were until after ds stopped going there.

The cash thing I wouldn't read too much into - I prefer cash because my bank is miles away, and a few cms I know have had bounced cqes from parents. Not wanting to accept tax credits - a little concerned.

It's the lack of a signed contract that concerns me most - if anything had happened to your ds, doubt whether her insurance would have covered her. If she has insurance....

On the Ofsted website there is a document called 'Building better childcare' which outlines what to do if you have concerns or complaints about a childcarer. Have a look at that - I think a lot of your points would be concerns if she was my cm.

Am pleased this experience hasn't put you off using cms - the majority of us are fab

It would definitely be worth raising the over numbers issue with Ofsted. They usually investigate something like that by sending an Inspector out on an unanounced visit - they just turn up and have a check of how many children are present, look at registers, etc. The trouble is that childminders who deliberately set out to have more mindees than they should don't usually keep accurate registers, so if they she is within numbers on the day then it's he-said-she-said and nothing can be proved.

If you ask then Ofsted won't disclose who contacted them, but "disgruntled parent" tends to jump to mind, so if there isn't any evidence the childminder will probably just say you're a parent with a contractual dispute trying to stir up trouble. Ofsted don't care either way - they don't investigate "complaints" to try to find in someone's favour, they only care that everyone keeps to the regulations, but you might find some trouble stirred up in the local area if she's the type to hold a grudge. Not saying don't raise the issue, just something to bear in mind!