Help: all our children soon to be at school - what childcare should we have?

[Number42]

I'm not sure what to do about childcare. We live in London and we have three children: 8, 6 and 4, so our youngest is starting school in September. We have had a great nanny for the last four years, but from Sept she'll have nothing to do from 9.30 to 3 during termtime and that just won't work. We can't pay her to sit around and do nothing. So we need something new.

The problem is that we now have quite odd childcare needs. From 8.30 to 9.30 am in the mornings, and from 3.30 to 6.30pm in the evenings, plus all day in school holidays, the job is still pretty full-on: managing three young kids requires someone with a good level of childcare skills. Our nanny is brilliant at organising playdates, getting them to swimming etc and we wouldn't want to lose that. It doesn't feel like something that your typical 20-year old au pair could do (nor are we particularly keen to have someone living in our house, though if we had to, we would).

Thoughts we've had:

• Finding our nanny something else to do during the middle of the day eg looking after someone's baby, to reduce her cost to us.
• We've heard of "au pair plus" - are they more experienced, or is it just about the hours?
• Do these creatures called "mothers' helps" exist, and would they work these sorts of weird hours?
• Er....

Any helpful suggestions please?

It sound like you could use a childminder. They would take your kiddies to school, then collect them and also care for them In School holidays.

I could have written that post, being in exactly the same situation! We have advertised on gumtree for someone to do exactly what we need (7.30-9am, 3.30-6.30pm in term time, full time in holidays or if a child is ill)at a price we can afford which reflects the reduced hours. I was very surprised to find a good number of candidates. You don't get the highly experienced highly qualified nannies applying, but I found plenty of people with 1-2 years of good experience who would be a good fit for us. Good luck!

you could pay her to sit around and do nothing, but you dont want to

which is fair enough - my last family felt the same, and tbh most nannies do understand

the thing most parents dont understand is that what would you do if your children are ill and cant go to school,or need picking up early if ill/baker days etc?

my ex family, now have an after school nanny,the db takes to school and then goes to work,and a nanny with her own child works 2-6 - she goes in, puts some washing on, then prepares tea,as after school they have activites and not back to the house till 5.30, then tea and homework

my ex family did moan that things didnt get done with her, but when you are there 4hrs instead of 10, it is much harder to keep on top of washing, changing beds, tidying playroom etc

if they are ill then as i only work 3 days , mb has rang me in a panic to see if i can have them that day, sometimes i can,sometimes not, so then mb/db has to decide who has the less busy day and who can stay at home that day

you can see if you can get your nanny to find a mum at school who maybe wants a few hours peace a day which would work well

or get a nanny with own child to do both ends of days, but then you may have to pay a retainer IF she needs to work during the day, and again she may have plans

she cant be at your beck and call 9-3 if you are not paying her

it does get very difficult to find good childcare when all children are at school

also if your nanny does leave in sept as you dont want her anymore, you are making her redundant and will need to pay her redundancy

see here

which at the moment is one weeks pay for every full year she has worked for you, up to a max of £350 a week - so possibly £1400

Although you say you don't want to keep on a full-time nanny, many people do exactly that. With three children that's a lot of inset days, holidays, doctor appointments, music exams and sickness to cover. Our nanny also used to cover for me sometimes if I just couldn't get to a class assembly, after-school meeting, etc.

The thing about having a childminder is that it will be much more difficult to arrange after-school activities for your children. The childminder probably won't be in a position to drag everybody to your child's swimming lesson which was one of the reasons we kept on our nanny.

I don't know if you can come to some kind of arrangement with her whereby she takes on some more household duties during the day time e.g. rather than just keeping the children's rooms tidy, she also does some additional hoovering/laundry. Our nanny also did a lot of cooking and baking for the freezer. Some nannies don't want to do this but your nanny may feel it is a compromise worth doing if she would like to stay with your family, rather than look for a new job. Depending on where you live, the market for jobs may not be great at the moment.

That's really helpful everyone.

1. We did think of household duties but it's not really our nanny's thing. Nor is sitting around - she's very energetic and active which is why she's a great nanny.
2. Sobeda: sounds encouraging. Couldn't help wondering, how can these people make a living? What are they doing for the rest of the day?
3. No-one's mentioned au pairs. Are they a runner for kids this age?

We have an au pair for before/after school, inset days and to do the ferrying about to kids clubs etc in school holidays.
The au pair plus option tends to mean that they are asked to do more hours (for a bit more pocket money) and often that they can drive.
My kids are 5 and 7 and perfectly capable of making their needs known so I feel they are ok to be left with an au pair. The majority of applicants for an au pair position are inexperienced in childcare (sometimes you get lucky though, my last au pair had 18 months experience in a kindergarten).
Downside compared to a nanny (which we had before school-age and we have also nanny-shared) - Au pairs need a lot of direction (ie. watching over in the first few weeks to tell them how to behave with the children, how to cook pasta, a lot of hands-on training compared to a nanny), and they have to live-in, and you have to get more involved in things like making sure they have friends/hold their hand for dental appointments etc.
Oh and recruitment is difficult since most APs are abroad when you recruit so it's dependent on emails and phone calls rather than face-to-face.
Upside is that they are cheaper than a nanny (but beware the incidental costs if your current nanny isn't live-in, things like food, petrol, heating, power really add up). (Ours costs £800 per month but her pocket money is only £85 per week). And they will do other jobs eg. walk the dog, dusting/hoovering, which most nannies won't do.

Hi I'm in the same situation as you and my boys are of similar age. I currently have an aupair as i could not find anyone who wanted to do the early start. My aupair started out as an au pair plus but when I found out she was studing when she should have been looking after the kids and doing light chores like their washing etc I reduced her pay to the wage of an au pair and paid my cleaner extra pay to do the kids washing and ironing etc. It's tough as I'm not keen on having someone live in but on the fip side you always have instant childcare and if the kids are sick you don't have to take a day off. The down side I feel is au pairs are not quailified nannies and do treat their time here as a holiday. I have learned they don't want to stay more than 3 months and then head home. If your can live with having to look for a replacment 2/3 times a year and can put up with someone living with you than an au pair is a good option. My advice is if you do decided on an aupiar set ground rules from day one, write up a rota, iron out any teething problems (if any) ASAP. Good luck with whatever you decide. If you find a good ageny let me know.

Hi What job do you do? Is it the sort of thing the nanny could help you with? When I was a nanny for 3 children and the youngest started school I was kept on full time by my boss. I used to do all my nanny duties in the morning once the children had gone to school and then work in her office helping as secretary until it was time to collect the children. That way if I was needed as one of the children were ill I was there anyway and in the holidays I was back to full time naNNY again. It worked really well and I satyed with them for 10 years (3 of these the children were at full time school)I only left because the children got too old to need a full time nanny.

hi , we are in exactly sam eposition wiht childcar needs, spoke to an agency reacently who suggested adding up hrs needed during the week , hrs needed during holidays/inset days etc add in maybe hrs for 1 evening babysitting then divide by 52 to get average weekly hrs for the year then work out salary based on that. ( sorry not explaining very well) but basically we are goign to look for a nanny on htis basis and pay her the same amount each week but expect 12 hrs during term time and fulltime in school hols - works out the same cost as getting someone in on an hrly rate to do after school and then paying for more hrs during hols , and the nanny will be available then if kids sick etc

mummydoc - you mean you are going to do a pro rato salary - thats fine, though not sure any nannies will want to be on call during the day at school if they are not being paid between 9-3 iyswim and then work 10+hrs aday when on holiday but still be paid the smae/smaller wage

you have to either bite the bullet and pay a nanny fulltime (and have her possibly having lots of spare time) or have an after school one and hope that the children arent ill very often

I agree blondes

If I was working (term-time) 8am-9am and 3pm-6pm, I might well have plans for my day that I wouldn't be able to or wouldn't want to drop at short notice. If you are being paid in some capacity (maybe a retainer, or slightly reduced hourly rate for the hours the children are at school?) then obviously I would be available as I would be 'on call'. If I wasn't busy, I would of course provide care.

I am in exactly this situation and am struggling to find anyone.

I am more than happy to pay for a full time person, but do not want to pay for someone who has 5 hours a day during term time but will only do 'light nursery duties.' Most nannies will tidy the children's rooms and cook their tea. A lot turn their noses up at doing the children's laundry and ironing but will do it reluctantly. None have considered changing the children's bedding or cleaning their shoes as part of their duties.

Ideally what I would like is a nanny / housekeeper. (Basically a house wife!) Who will do all laundry and ironing, includign adults, (and put away), cook meals, do shopping, tidy up and clean etc, so that when I am at home I can concentrate on the children rather than doing all the other things that need to be done to run a home.

I would grow to resent a nanny that sat around reading magazines / watching television for 5 hours a day because she felt such duties were beneath her, especially if this would mean that I would have to spend all my weekends doing housework and not spending any time with the children (after being at work and not seeing them all week.)

Is there such a thing as a nanny / housekeeper and where do you find them?

"Most nannies will tidy the children's rooms and cook their tea. A lot turn their noses up at doing the children's laundry and ironing but will do it reluctantly. None have considered changing the children's bedding or cleaning their shoes as part of their duties"

see to me the above are normal nanny/nursery duties - basically anything to do with the child/ren and ALL professional nannies should be happy to do them-though i personally dont iron as HATE it

in my current job i dont do any of the above, but only as mum or cleaner/ironing lady does it,as that is what mb wanted - a nanny to play/educate her children and not have to do nursery duties - fine by me

many nannies wont do the employers washing - but i do feel if the children are at school all day, it is not hard for the nanny to do it, as well as cook a meal/go shopping etc

there are nannies out there who do this - one of my friends will be working for a lovely lady on here doing excatly that - you know who you are

Put and advert in The Lady, my mother had a mhousekeeper/nanny for us and she used to advertise there.

We will soon be in a similar position as I will be starting a PGCE. I was interested that Sobeda had lots of applicants for the before/after school mother's help. How much would you pay per hour?

hi blondes!!

smiley you have to look at a balance i am afraid.

Personally I wouldnt expect my nanny to clean but she does do all the family laundry because I have school aged children.If I was at home I wouldnt clean as well as do everything else as I have a big old dusty house and I just wouldnt be able to do it all either.

But she is paid full time wages and will be on duty as it were 7 to 7 living in. I would fully expect that during the day she will have time to mumsnet and email but as long as her jobs are all done then thats fine. I email and mumsnet at work too !

never underestimate how much running around there is for school aged children as well.Its a full time job just managing their activities and timetables !!

I do sympathise. There isnt a mum on here who would have dearly loved to have to not continue to pay out significant sums when the children go to school but it just isnt practical if you both have full on careers.

Can I suggest that you write out exactly what you want the nanny to do and be upfront about it at the start. I had 4 lovely ladies who wanted my job and were more than happy to do washing / ironing , errands etc. and many more who applied who I didnt interview.

If you want to see my job description I would be happy to send you an anonymous version !

waves to MP

you made good points!!

a nanny isnt a cleaner - tbh if you (the mum) doesnt want to clean, then you need to get a cleaner in as well as a ft nanny

#42 have same number of kids, (now a couple of years older than yours) but those are the hours my 20 yo AP does.

AP+ is about the hours not the experience.

You requirements are pretty full on but if you look hard enought there are those that have worked on summer camps or have more experience that "I once baysat my nighbours cat and I love children" that constiture half the applicants.

Guess the having somebody live in could be the sticking point.

I'd advertise and see what response you get, I am a teacher but also nanny after school sometimes and during school hols (although not all school hols). What you are describing might suit a Teaching Assistant or similar although as someone else said, if your children are ill during term time they wouldnt be able to stay off work to look after them. It might also suit a stay-at-home-mum who'd be able to fit it in with her own child/ren.