Questions about part time nanny we've hired for our 9 month old

[Inexperiencedmummy]

Hi everyone,

As you can see from my talk-name, I'm an inexperienced mummy! I have a 9 month old & a few months ago we hired a part-time nanny (found her through a personal recommendation) just for 15 hours a week or so. It worked out well & she's bonded well with our baby. However, a few months down the line I've increased her hours to 24 per week so that I can work part time (about 3 days a week) either from home or from the local library. She now works 4 days a week, 6 hours each time, which is a lot. I'm now realizing that she's not necessarily a great choice even though she's good with our baby & has formed, as I said, a real bond with him. When I hired her I was quite cool about the whole thing, didn't know much about hiring nannies, & was going to be working from home anyway, so didn't really think it through much. Here are the pros & cons, and hopefully you'll help me.

PROS
-she's young, enthusiastic, has a strong bond with the baby & plays very well with him
-she's always on time, reliable, friendly, and is flexible with times if I want to change things around for some reason
-she speaks english well (although is not a native speaker)
-I like her a lot & we have a good connection!
-she has a good friend who's looked after our baby on & off too (e.g. for evening babysitting but also during the day), and who is happy to cover for her when she can't do a shift for whatever reason. I like her friend very much too.

CONS
-she's inexperienced. She came through a personal recommendation (friend of friend, looking for a job). She hasn't worked with babies before, only part-time at a nursery (voluntarily) ages ago
-because she's inexperienced I spend LOADS of time explaining & describing what she needs to be doing. On the plus side, she understands quickly & responds well to things. However, I have to explain so many things (which I'm learning myself too as the baby grows) & it means I'm not using my time with her that well
-I didn't think to ask her to do other baby-related stuff when I hired her (laundry, cleaning up after the baby eats, preparing simple meals) so now she doesn't do these things & I have to do them myself
-she's paid quite a lot for what I think she is worth (9£ per hour)
-even though she plays very happily & enthusiastically with the baby, & she's kind & warm towards him, I don't think she knows much about developmental stages in babies & different requirements they have at different times, so again, I have to explain things to her often.
-she's asked not to do a formal contract & formal employment because she's in london for just a few years (2-3 at most) so doesn't care about being formally employed. I offered to employ her formally but she says this is a better arrangement for her. We're on really friendly terms so that has worked out ok even if it's not my first choice.

What do you think? We're about to move to a bigger place, so perhaps with the move I should make a list of things for her to do, & renegotiate stuff? To be honest, if I'd known from the start we'd be needing 24 hours pw I would have hired somebody else, but I didn't know at the time, and now, a few months down the line, I don't want to fire her, since she's also quit another job she had to work more hours with us. She's very happy with working here, and we're happy with her in general, but I really want to use the money I spend on her (which is hard earned!) better, & also use the time I have when she works in a more efficient way.

Any advice would be great.

I don't think you chose wisely even for 15 hours a week. Of course your baby was going to grow up and have different needs and if she has no experience or training - and you took her on knowing that - then it is your role to explain and teach her.

She sounds a real treasure to me and one thing you haven't factored in here is the effect on your son of replacing her.

I think if I were you I would talk to her about your changing needs and how she can increase her nanny skills to meet them. After all her next employer will expect her to do meals etc. And offer an incentive. Then when she knows the terms she can decide to accept or reject. If she is serious about childcare she will be keen, if not then it is up to you to decide whether a loving carer (like a grandparent would be) is more important to you than someone more efficient. I think I would keep her.

Communication is also important - did you tell her to clean up after meals?

I would say that it makes no difference how she sees the employment relationship. She is employed formally and that is that. I would very much bet that if she got pregnant or was unhappy with you she would be looking to assert her statutory employment rights, which are exactly what they are. You can't opt out of them.

I would sit down with her, with a contract, and review things. It is barking that she does not clean up after the baby when she eats. That doesn't need specifying, it is just common sense. From my point of view it is like not cleaning up after a baby is sick. It is just part of the job. Ask her how things are going from her perspective, and use the opportunity to explain that you are finding that you need to spend a lot of time explaining things to her. Use this opportunity to outline all the things that you need doing, including the laundry.

Your list of pros sound good, you do have something to work with at least.

ProvincialLady, thanks. Yes, I think I didn't think things through when I hired her (up to a point), but the thing is, I really liked her, & also we were finding it really hard to find someone more experienced willing to work 15 hours a week. Most people prefer full time nanny jobs.

Maybe it wasn't clear in my OP, but yes, I would be very very reluctant for her to go, main reason because she's so good with my baby & he has a big smile on his face when she comes! So I agree, I should perhaps renegotiate some of the terms. Maybe I haven't been that clear with things, because I'm learning as I go along. Also, because I mainly work from home, I'm usually at hand to help with things, which is why some of the things she could be doing I do myself. But now that I'll start working a bit more, it's important to be clear about what I would like from her. As for meals, I don't want her to prepare DS's main meals (I like to cook for him myself, as I love cooking anyway) but I would really like it if she could do some basic, simple things, food preparation, heating up, clearing up after the meal etc. The way things stand, I'm the one doing all that at the moment (probably more my mistake than hers).

What kind of incentive should I offer, do you think? I think the money we're paying her is good. Do you have other ideas?

She sounds like she is doing a good job overall and that you just need to sit down with her and talk about what you would like her to do in addition to what you are doing now.

I would say that there are advantages to having an inexperienced nanny as well as the disadvantages. She is not imposing her opinions on how to look after a baby on you as can happen with an experienced nanny and a first time parent. She's not making you leave your baby to sleep outside in the garden with the foxes when you have told her otherwise for example!

She will pick things up as she goes, like we do, and will probably get nanny friends as your baby gets older and starts going to groups and things.

Firstly, I would pay for her to do some basic 1/2 day training courses every couple of months, such as first aid, food hygiene and some basic child development courses. Your local council and also private providers will offer courses that she can access that will build up a basic level of knowledge.

Secondly, I would draw up a simple 'job specification' and say you are just setting things out a little clearer now that her hours have increased and as you are working more and she has more hours you need her to use her time more wisely. If you can I would sit with your Nanny and do it together, asking her what she feels is manageable and in turn giving her some ownership of it and then there is no doubt in he future that she has agreed to it.

HTH

As your baby is only 9 months old you could ask her to just put a wash on whilst he's sleeping, or do some ironing as that wouldn't take up too much of her time. She could also tidy up at the end of the day and wash up the food things just for ease as you could explain you don't want dirty dishes and pans around the kitchen.
I'm sure if you sit her down and explain you need some help with the domestic side of nannying then she would be ok with it. The things you are asking are not going to put her out, your not asking her to do a weekly shop or clean the house from top to bottom.
Regarding the development side of things if she really hasn't got a clue then it falls to you to do something with your son on the days you don't work. You could do a music class, swimming lesson, play dates all of which are only a couple of hours and would also give you some one to one time with him but not take up the whole day.
Unfortunately you are in a bit of a pickle if you don't have a proper contract with her as she could phone you tomorrow and say she's not coming in and is leaving. The same for her if you suddenly decide you don't want her anymore and tell her to go. If you can sit down and get something down on paper as to her duties and notice period you have a better leg to stand on and everything is clear.

First off you could use the move as a wy of making her redundant but I am not sure how you would do that.

Get a contract.
Make it clear what the duties are.
Being fond of the child is a big plus but a nanny needs to know a lot more than how to cuddle a baby.
When I was working in child care I bought books to get the info I didn't know.

Fire her and few days later come here and post another post how you regret firing her as your new nanny from hell. She doesnt bond with your baby and doesnt really play with him but prepair fantastic food and keep the kitchen spotless!

Just talk to her and tell her what you want from her thats it.

Are you not paying her tax and NI then?

It does sound like she has the potential to be a good nanny for you - you get on well (which is really important), she's enthusiastic, loves your baby, takes direction and learns quickly. I think you might have to put some effort in now to reap the rewards.

Not having a contract and employing her formally (and paying tax etc) is no good for either of you! Is she definitely working here legally? I would take this as an opportunity to have a review meeting with her, discuss how both of you feel things are going so far, draw up a contract and include nursery duties in it. She's on a very good wage given her lack of experience and qualifications, and she should be able to do simple meal prep, keep the baby's room and communal areas they use clean and tidy, and do some of his laundry.

I think it's vital that you send her on a paediatric first aid course asap! I would not feel comfortable about anyone caring for a child without first aid knowledge. Also, I would send her on an ICP (Introduction to Childcare Practice) course - it will cover all the basics. MNT Training are a company that offer nanny training, and run this course over two days every month - it costs £140 details here

You could also get her a child development book. Child Care and Education by Tina Bruce is good.

She sounds more like a babysitter/mother's help/au pair type than a nanny. It doesn't sound realistic to have someone like that around when you are also supposed to be working. I think it will drive you crazy after a couple of months. You really should formalise the relationship with a contact. I've been in your shoes with someone - similar situation, a recommendation, sort of slipped into doing more hours, our first nanny- and when things aren't going well it can be very problematic.

Regarding her salary if you keep her and she does agree to formalise the arrangement and you then pay her tax and ni £9 net is a fortune for someone with so little experience. I would also not pay to have her trained up - well anything more than a pediatric first aid course. It really is possible to find someone with more experience who will give you peace of mind and also bond with your son for that amount of money.

Is there any reason why you wouldn't consider a nursery or a childminder?

Thanks everyone for your advice. Some of the suggestions are great, I'll definitely take them on.

I think one of the reasons I really don't want to make her redundant is that- and this is in answer to HarrietTheSpy as well- now that we're moving, and as our boy is growing, we might consider a good childminder or some hours at a nursery. The area we currently live in is not great for that kind of thing, but we're moving to a much more 'family friendly' area, and DS will be 1 in the summer, so it's possible we'll gradually move towards the nursery option & decrease the nanny's hours again. I've only agreed with her to work the hours she's currently working until september, & we'll take it from there. So in a way this 'informal' agreement suits us both... It's possible (because we really like her) that we'll keep her on next year too, in case nursery doesn't feel like the right choice. But it's possible that we won't.

I'll definitely have her do a paediatric first aid course (actually I might do one myself now that I think of it!) & I'll re-negotiate some other things (which I don't think are unreasonable) asap. I think she'll be fine with it. Oh, and I'll buy the child development book for her as a gift (the one willow suggested)...

Hi there

Just to pick up on the point that Harriet and Giraffes mentioned - if you are paying £9 an hour for 24 hours a week you really should be paying over tax and NICs for this girl. If you dont and you get caught by the Inland Revenue they will fine you and make you pay the back tax and NICs but they will work it out as if you paid £9 net and gross that up which will cost you a fortune. Even at 15 hours a week she would have been over the annual tax free allowance but only just. You need to get this part sorted out and there are various nanny tax agencies around who can help you sort it out. When drawing up any terms just make it clear that the £9 is gross and you are required to deduct tax and NICs from it.

get a contract and employ her "properly"
pay her tax / ni etc

What llareggub said. You don't get to choose whether to employ someone 'formally' or not. You can call it informal as much as you like, and you can fail to provide her with a written contract, but she is formally employed, regardless. I feel by not doing it properly you are taking advantage of her in that she obviously is not aware of her rights, and you are relying on that.

Similarly, you can't just decide not to bother with tax and NI either, by calling it 'informal'.