cm club - i made no money last tax year.........what a total waste of working 60hours a week

[Booh]

i made a total pittance last year.....

all of my profit was eaten up with expenses, such as food, fuel, outings and insurance etc.

is it really worth it? DH thinks i am bonkers for doing it

Really? Is is the norm that kids at childminders are only part time? I'm surprised.

I'm not going to flame you, but of course parents needs to consider the bil, just as you need to consider your earning.

I am very surprised to read how little you guys make. When DD was a baby she went to a childminder and I paid her a fortune -- although we did use a lot of hours.

Athene, there are very few 'well-off' cms out there, most people are shocked when I tell them what I earn. I have a friend - an ex-cm - who works for the pdsa, spends all day playing with kittens and puppies, loves her job and gets paid twice what I do. I've only continued because I couldn't afford to pay for childcare for ds if I was to go back to work at the moment. Once he's in full-time school, I'm not sure what going to do - like I said earlier, nannying is a better option than cm at the moment for me personally. I've had an enquiry today and it's like winning the lottery - and they haven't even been to see me yet

Oops, sorry Booh - bit of a hijack there .

Good luck with the interview. I'm absolutley certain some childminders make a very good living. But, I guess it varies widely and they are not the norm.

£3.50 an hour is not much that's for sure.

underpaid - ignoring index.html, the most popular page on my website is the Cost page where I detail my fees. I am not surprised that when parents call a CM the first question they ask is about fees.

CM's I know have part-time children. Some will do 2 or 3 days. Can't think of any child which does all 5 days full-time - only a five day after-school, which is again part-time as it is just a few hours each day.

I think full-time children are quite rare these days. Even as a nanny I am not working 5-days per week.

can i ask a question. i have a cm friend. she never EVER EVER pays a penny tax/nat insurance. says it get eaten up in expenses! the children she minds are paid a) by a parent on tax credits, b) by local college for someone studying. c) through someones job. how can she get away with this. oh and she gets called to the job centre every 6 weeks for a 'back to work' interview. shes def. registered. on income supoort. is it just a case of a computer going Bing. when i ask her she says something about cm's being the only job you can work this way with and she gets to keep the first £20. social never know what kids she has though.

I do make a good living

BUT I have no children living at home, I have three under 5's all full time on 9 hours a day, and 4 after schools 1 everyday, 1 four days and two days.

But still my expenses take up two thirds of my income. ( I charge 3.50 per hour all inclusive)

You can't claim income support and be registered as self-employed if you are officially registered as a cm. You get to keep the first 20 squids - I wish . Your friend is either playing the system - somehow - or she's telling porkies about her registration. If she's minding unregistered then it will go belly up for her at some point. If she's claiming and working - unregistered - then that is wrong. There are no tax or 'benefit' benefits to being a cm - I can't claim a thing for my 4yr old even though he counts towards my numbers for registration and therefore reduces my earnings

Shoshe - you are soooo lucky . Wish I had a catchment area like that - though wouldn't want to write your policy on terrorist/ bomb attacks .

A lot of it is down to area - there are lots of us round here who have lost children to wrap-around/ out of school clubs/ full-time school and we are all struggling. .

Shoshe - are you feeling any better - read your thread on staffroom earlier

Yes Thank You UPOW. Had anie day in the garden.

We are going to Cool Play tomorrow if you fancy coming.

kylesmyloveheart - registered CM's are required by law and through rules of registration to register as a business with the tax / ni office. I'm a bit gobsmacked that your friend gets to sign on as well and (keep the first £20) I was under the impression that when signing on you had to be available for work - a fully registered CM cannot just be available for work, whilst looking after children, so sounds well dodgy to me. Not a benefit guru but sounds a bit wierd however some of the back 2 work schemes and rules on working when in reciept of certain benefits may be what she is referring to (benefit of the doubt) but I find it highly unlikely that osfted would register a CM under these circumstances.

she is def registered. so i think she is claiming income support and childminding at the same time. not sure how when the parents are claiming tax credits.

but how would she not pay a penny tax on the £500 she is given in her hand by the parents. oh apart from the £180 income support she gets. and the housing benefit. its unbelievable.

shes been cm for about 17 years! makes me laugh when she tells me every 6 weeks she goes on a 'back to work' interview. shes is looking after 3 kids full time! and she takes the kids with her to the interview.

'in her hand' hmmm - sums it up . No-one could possibly be registered as a cm with ofsted and inland revenue and also claim income support for 17years . She is obviously not declaring her income from looking after other peoples children - I am reluctant to use the term childminding - otherwise she would be paying bucketloads of tax on that amount of money. Could be wrong - glitch in the system and all that - but that makes me mad......

Out of interest - what training has she done....

Shoshe - Cool Play, does that involve chilled glass of wine in back garden watching children play on slide . BTW - I have no mindees tomorrow, so imaginary children

I also make a decent living, but I have no children of my own, have three/four under 5's 10-12 hours each day.

Expenses are relatively high, easily at least 60% of my income. My charge is £5-£6 an hour.

Although I mke no "profit" I am able to take money out of my business, things like:
Council Tax
Water Rates
Heating

these are allowed as expenses at a percentage so they go in my pocket as does the mileage (at 40p a mile) and the money I 'allow' for meals also goes to me

That is the money I live on - it isn't a lot but I couldn't depend upon "profit" to live on

Look at your fees - can you increase them slighty?

Do not provide evening meal in fees, mine charges £2. We send a packed lunch as well (though the pre-schoolers get lunch included). Breakfast is included.

Charge if you are available to work, so if a child is on holiday or sick, charge, unless it's a long term absence in which case it may be better to take a temp mindee.

Do not charge if you are on holiday or for bank holidays though, though the cm's on here will no doubt disagree with the bank holiday one! The issue is there is loads of paperwork and you can't charge for that - and you need a lot of toys etc - however, you should be able to get stuff in charity shops and freecycle like buggies and toys, yes it has to be safe but a lot of stuff like books don't get trashed and are safe whether old or new. Even car seats can be 2nd hand if you know the source and know they have not been in an accident.

I live in Hampshire and my ds is 6 and I pay £5 before school, £13 after school (plus £2 meal) and £32 for a full day in hols (including any trips) plus £2 fees. Extra hours are £4 an hour and £8 an hour before 7.30 or afer 6. I think my cm does ok.

You can't make all the changes at once, but you could introduce requiring a packed lunch or increased fees and then introduce a fee for an evening meal later.

kylesmyloveheart - is she a lone parent? If so, then it could be legit. JC only take into account 1/3 of a cm's earnings less the £20 disregard. If the amount left over is less than IS amount then she would be payed the difference in IS which means she'd automatically be entitled to HB.

Booh - could you ask the parents to contribute some fruit and other suitable food for the children to share as an after school snack? I'm sure if you explained that things are pretty tight at the moment they'd rather help out than have to find another cm if you had to give it up.

I earn between 30 and 35 k per year

God, it must be soul destroying to feel you're working for so little...

A practical suggestion, since it's year end, why not take the time to go through say a months worth of expenses and think about what you could cut down on. Given your expenses are so high, & it sounds like there's not much flexiblity on charges, that would be where I'd start
For example, I'm sure there are reasons, but £14/week on grapes sounds bloody bonkers to me for example - can't you swop to cheaper fruit? Could you do one veggie meal a week? Cheaper outings? Sometimes you can spot a load of things when you go through with a clear head and a ruthless sense of injustice

I'm SE too, and don't make a great profit - but I know that lots of things I buy 'for the business' are things that I might buy anyway/can be used at least partially for the family - eg laptop, car, plus heating/water etc. Would it help you feel better to add up some of those?