please give me your opinion on this nursery

[BocciBalls]

Background - I'm looking for a nursery for ds, who will be 2 in 2 weeks. He's been with two different CMs for the past year, both in a setting with 5 other children (so CM + assistant), one quite structured like preschool and the other more relaxed but with lots of activities and outings. He's been the youngest both times and loved it. CM is giving up and I am looking at nurseries for him but am not sure if my expectations are too high, or really what to look for as obviously a nursery will be different in many ways to what we've done so far.

Saw a nursery this morning and these are my thoughts on what was good and not so good - please would some experienced people tell me what they think?

Good:

• Rooms bright clean and spacious
• Secure door from reception area into main part of nursery
• Big outdoor play area
• Children busy and happy
• Children well-behaved and calm
• Staff seemed nice
• Lots to do
• DS keen to get playing

Not so good:

• Rooms seemed a bit stark and not very homely
• Despite security code, buzzer etc on main door I was let into reception area from outside by (I assume) a parent. No-one on reception and no-one arrived there for a few minutes - I and a delivery man were in the building without being officially "let in" - though internal door through to main nursery was secure.
• Nursery literature says no-one allowed in without sigining in - I was not asked to sign in or out
• Outdoor play area is very stark - all covered in soft flooring but very few plants or greenery.
• In summer outdoor play area is unusable because too hot and has no awning (though they've applied to the council for a grant for one.)
• Nursery literature talks about outings but they don't do these because of ratios and because of the nursery is on a busy road.
• Although staff were nice they didn't really try to engage with my son beyond saying hello.
• Although children were happy there wasn't a lot of staff-children "chat" or organisation - they seemed to be largely doing their own thing (think this is the ethos of the nursery)
• Snack time is "rolling" so starts at 9.30 for about an hour or so, and children come for toast/ fruit as and when they are hungry. There was one little girl sitting at the table eating toast on her own while we were there.
• In the pre-school room, the timetable said the children should have been doing a focused activity but staff didn't seem to be helping anyone to do anything, although the children were busy among themselves
• In the preschool room, story time involved a book being read rather fast and without much effort.

Am really conscious that the not good list is much longer than the good list - but the good list seems to cover generally more important things than the not-good, which is perhaps just a few niggles or me being a bit precious?

Thanks

There are a lot of things in the 'not good' list that would concern me, even though your 'good' list covers the important things.

Why are you not considering using a cm again, giving your experiences so far have been good. A nursery setting can be much more structured than a cm - and not as flexible. As a cm I might have certain indoor activities planned, but on a lush day like today we may go to the beach, park, or just get the paddling and ball pool out in the garden - have no children today which is why am on mumsnet

Remember too that cms now have to follow the same statutory framework and assessment profile that nurseries and pre-schools do, but our care is more 1-1. I would have a look around at various options before making a final decision. Good luck

BTW, what was your 'gut' feeling - I usually find that my first instinct and impression about something/ someone was the right one

There are a things in the "not so good" list that would concern me. It sounds like you didnt like the nursery much? Are there any others that you could look at?

thanks all. I would love to use another CM but simply can't find a good one near me who also would be available throughout the year.

instant gut feel was a no - but then really confused as some aspects were very good and the "good" list, in particular the children seeming to be happy made me think twice.

i am not a big fan of nurseries but am exploring all options at the moment, so I am coming from an already-negative stance I guess. I suspect that the lack of outings and the free-flow is what is really turning me off. I am totally in favour of free play and would love to find a Montessori place, but this felt very unstructured and a bit aimless IYKWIM?

Where abouts are you in the country as there maybe a nice cm on here that could help you.

am in SW London.

tiger and underpaid - what are the main things that stand out as concerning to you from my list?

I think your gut feeling is right here - it doesn't sound very good.
I think it's very important for the nursery to live up to the literature. You need to feel that you can basically trust the place, and if they aren't doing what they say they should be, you can't have that trust.
I personally wouldn't be too fussed about the lack of outings if the place itself was a good place to spend time, but it doesn't sound much like it is really.
You don't sound at all precious. It just doesn't sound like a very nice nursery. You would not be abusing your child by sending him there but we all want to do the best for our children and I don't think you'd feel like this was the best.
Good ones can be hard to find though.... good luck with the search!

Whereabouts in SW London BocciBalls? I am in SW London and have kids from these postcodes come to me(SW15/SW18/SW19/SW20). I might be able to help in the future/know someone who can help?

I think the fact you've put this post here says a lot. I personally would not be happy with the things that are wrong. I am also one to go by gut feeling.

I wouldn't use a nursery wher ethe kids couldn't play outside in the summer. tbh at 2 cI'd be looking for another CM.

I would keep looking. Too many negatives that you were able to write about (I guess you were not taking notes whilst visiting, so your brain was making all those mental notes).

I expect few nurseries do many outings. However some do, one in my area is located within large private grounds, so there are walks in around the private estate (to see the horses - as grounds also include stables, butterflies, etc).

In terms of your negative list, the major negatives I feel are:

• Rooms seemed a bit stark and not very homely.

They may rotate resources or what was in the room was all they had.

• No-one on reception and no-one arrived there for a few minutes.

Good nurseries in my view have a receptionist (often the Nursery manager / Deputy, as management are not in adult:child ratio).

• Although staff were nice they didn't really try to engage with my son beyond saying hello.

Were you on a scheduled visit? Manager should have been showing you the BEST aspects of the nursery. Staff in my view should have engaged more, involved your son in an activity.

Keep looking around other nurseries, see if you can find one where your gut instinct is not to post on Mumsnet a list of all the things you disliked about it

Reading over your post again - most of them. Regarding outdoor play, childcare providers have to provide provision for outdoor activities under EYFS, regardless of the weather - surely they have a suncream policy and use sunhats if it's warm. Also, I can't believe they didn't engage your son in activities and conversation - the first thing I do if a child comes for an initial visit is get down on the floor and play with them . I think in your heart of hearts you know what to do.....

Thanks again everyone, your views are very helpful.

JenniPenni I'm SW11 so not quite in your catchment, but please let me know if you have contacts who can help!

NannyNick yes it was a scheduled visit but the manager was away at one of their other nurseries. I was quite surprised that the staff didn't get ds to join in when they all sat down to something and he was standing right next to the group.

Stark room - seemed to be lots of things to do but all tidied away. Would rather it was a bit more chaotic and messy I think! Sleeping areas were in the middle of the room rather than a quiet corner too.

Also - ratios? 1:4 for over 2s is that right? There were 12 children in the toddler room we looked at and 2 staff + the lady who was showing me round who would usually be in that room, so for a good 45 mins they were under ratio - but that must be normal in most nurseries?

Well I think with this last post that I have convinced myself that it is a no!!

problem I have is that I am a lone parent and don't have family nearby, so wherever ds goes it has to be really quite close to the house or the station - transport is so unrealiable even with current CM living 2 roads away it is a frantic dash from desk to station to CM and vice versa each day.

Does your cm not have any recommendations - we all pass enquiries round if they come in and we have no vacancies. You should contact your local Family Information Services too and get an up to date list from them - it may be they know of some cms in the process of registering. Put a post on NetMums in the Childcare section as parent looking for childcare. Trying to think of ways to help you here ...

Wish I was in your area - have vacancy at moment.

At the end of the day, I think if you didn't get a good feeling then it's not the nursery for you. But my opinion (I work in a nursery) of your negatives:

Not so good:

• Rooms seemed a bit stark and not very homely

Nurseries aren't homely environments tbh, and I think the way it looks is more important to the parents than the children.

• Despite security code, buzzer etc on main door I was let into reception area from outside by (I assume) a parent. No-one on reception and no-one arrived there for a few minutes - I and a delivery man were in the building without being officially "let in" - though internal door through to main nursery was secure.
• Nursery literature says no-one allowed in without sigining in - I was not asked to sign in or out

These bits aren't great, but lots of smaller nurseries can't afford to have a receptionist - in my nursery the manager is often in numbers as covering staff breaks or sickness. If the internal door was still secure it wouldn't bother me too much. Not signing you in is a bit sloppy.

• Outdoor play area is very stark - all covered in soft flooring but very few plants or greenery.
• In summer outdoor play area is unusable because too hot and has no awning (though they've applied to the council for a grant for one.)

Outdoor space is very important, and not having an awning is ridiculous. Surely they can sort it out without a grant? This in itself would rule it out for me.

• Nursery literature talks about outings but they don't do these because of ratios and because of the nursery is on a busy road.

Outings are tough to organise because of ratios, and shouldn't be expected imo - but the literature shouldn't mention them if they don't do them!

• Although staff were nice they didn't really try to engage with my son beyond saying hello.

This really depends on the child/situation, but I probably wouldn't engage with a child much beyond hello on a visit.

• Snack time is "rolling" so starts at 9.30 for about an hour or so, and children come for toast/ fruit as and when they are hungry. There was one little girl sitting at the table eating toast on her own while we were there.

I don't see the issue with this. In my nursery the over 2s help themselves to snack two at a time during the snack hour.

The other points are just about the "ethos" or style of the nursery I think - it either suits you or it doesn't.

get a cm you like, far better than any child farm, sorry nursery...

Don't be silly, body. There are plenty of dodgy childminders! And lots of fab nurseries.

There are lots of 'FAB' cms AND nurseries, but it has to be your choice about what is best for your dc that counts.

BTW, I personally don't know any 'dodgy' cms but am sure OP could spot one a mile off .

'get a cm you like, far better than any child farm, sorry nursery... '

Gosh, there are superb nurseries! My own mum had one for 20 years... and it was fabulous! There are good and bad nurseries AND CMs and nannies... that's why it's so crucial to do your homework!

BocciBalls SW11 is too far for me and those close to me I know and would recommend, sadly. Sorry cannot help.