are all nannies 'employed' or are some self-employed?

[choufleur]

had a discussion today with a friend about this as if a nanny is self-employed then as a parent you wouldn't paif employer's NI contributions etc. She's weighing options for childcare with twins.

almost all nannies HAVE to be employed...

We do not fot the governments set criteria for being self employed (people who are self employed generally choose their days / hours, which may be different every week, and they decided IF they are availiable to work, and work in different locations and are their own bosses, which is not typical of a nanny job!)

unless temping, or a maternity nanny fro example. If your days / hours are the same-ish for more than 6 months parents HAVE to employ us.

We have the same rights as any other employee, and if parents are caught not employing the nanny inlnad rev will fine them £3000 for not paying employers NI contributions

so yes in normal circumstances if you use a nanny you have to be and employer...
most nannies know this and would not be an SE anyway (why would be want to miss out on sick / maternity / holiday pay), but ultimately it would be the 'bosses' who get into trouble about it, not the nanny.

does she need regular care or just ad hoc?

If the former, she needs to employ the nanny, if the latter, she can use a self employed nanny

There is a poster on here who is a self employed nanny.

If it's only ad hoc care she needs, or very short term, then she could use a self-employed nanny, but otherwise the nanny would be employed. Employment status isn't decided by the employee or the employer, it's determined by the nature of the relationship between the two.

See guidance here, if you read through that it becomes clear that a nanny would be employed under most circumstances.

CTM, I am a self employed nanny and doula but only work ad hoc or temp positions, most of which are maternity based.

I feel it's about the amount of control. If someone wants to be able to tell someone else what to do... then that person is an employee. If a person wants to tell someone else to do a specific task (like fix a leaking pipe) then they are self-employed.
Add to that though the duration of the job - so a plumber working for one company fixing all the pipes in the network (think of your Water Board) then they are an employee, as while their job is made up of multiple single fix-it jobs, all the jobs are provided by the same company.

As parents would be telling a nanny what to do (or at least parents have the ability to do that) plus the job is on-going rather than just one-day, I feel it is an employed position.

if the nanny is going to be there one/several days a week, same days and times then the job is permament - as the mum is dictating the hours and duties, therefore she is an employer and the nanny an employee

and nannies cant be se in perm jobs

It did used to be the case way back pre-2002/3? that all nannies could be self-employed and therefore pay minimal NI or some advantage like that but just as it was taking off Gordon Brown in budget closed the loop hole for self-employed perm. domestic staff. But nannies can still often work out cheaper than cm for twins.

Changed in 1999 - with the introduction of IR35, which stopped nannies from setting up a Limited Company supplying their services. See IR35 Guide

For the care of twins, a nanny, childminder or nursery will all work out about the same in my view. If you were to use a Registered Nanny and your employer provides Childcare Vouchers, you can save some money.

thanks for link Nannynick. Much earlier than i thought. I went to a seminar about it after 1999. Wonder what that was all about then.