Would you employ a nanny without qualifications in childcare...

[LolaTheShowgirl]

...but with contactable references and many years experience?

yes

www.direct.gov.uk guidance Most agencies and families looking to employ a nanny should expect them to have a childcare qualification although this isn?t a legal requirement.

But I would if they had "many years of experience" as they would have had time to get some, you'd think anyhow.

I am that nanny and have never had a problem finding a job based on my 12 yrs experience and fab refs.

direct.gov?!?! Do people in this country need government guidance to choose a child carer.

I am very confident that I better qualified than any government agency to decide who can or can't look after my kids.

Exactly Athene. Takes the whole Nanny State thing to a new level.

Thanks for your replies. Wotzy, I started out doing an NVQ2 when I was 16 but then my learning centre let me down with the assessments and since then i've not been able to afford a course and none of my employers have offered to send me on one.

AtheneNoctua, so you know all about your employer requirements without government guidance then?

As well as dealing with your employee's tax and National Insurance contributions, you also need to be aware of your other obligations as an employer. Anyone you employ - even if they're part-time or temporary - has employment rights. So you know all about that then without government guidance? Good for you.

LolaTheShowgirl, you should make sure your employer treats you fairly, just because you don;t have any qualifications yet, still means you are entitled to be treated fairly and within the law.

I have no qualies but got a job But I don't have years upon years of experience, a year at most? And 6 months of that was voluntering I have 1000+ hours with 7-18 yos (mainly 7-12) though, which is helpful.

I do! But I think 25 years experience counts for something!

Well I didn't say see the site to see government guidance on how to choose a child carer. It has useful links for Lola. I didn;t see where the other comments were going TBH!

If you have x post in the meantime. Just get on with it.

wot Jura sed.

Wotzy, your first post on this thread starts with a link to the direct.gov site and then says "families looking to employ a nanny should expect them to have a childcare qualification..." so I gathered you were linking us somewhere that would tell us whom to hire and not what our responsibilites are once we become employers. Employer guidance is most welcome (and is very helpful to may on MN -- nannies and employers alike).

I'm a nanny with no qualifications - but I have done a few short courses over the years.

Looking back I find it hard to believe that I got my first sole charge nanny position at the age of 16. My Mum said at the time that my boss obviously felt I was right for the position and must have been a good judge of character. I like to think that I did the job as well as an older nnny - though as mentioned in another thread I did find the emloyer/employee relationship a bit difficult. I had grown up around children and had been babysitting from 13 and from 14 looked after my cousins children after school for an hour and a half between her going to work and hubby getting home.

As an unqualified nanny it took me longer to work my way up the pay scale but now that I have 24 years experience (and 2 children of my own 20 and 15) I am paid the same as an experienced qualified nanny.

OMG, that website it totally giving parents advice on whom to hire.

A good nanny should:

be able to plan and arrange safe, fun learning opportunities
know how to plan and prepare healthy meals and snacks
have first aid training
have driving experience if required
show good organisational skills
have an interest in children as individuals, and a confident and positive personality
have experience of working with children of various ages, in a variety of different settings

Ohhhhh... is the government giving me advice on healful meal planning. Cause I have a whole lot of time to sit down and discuss the shit they serve at my DDs school for school dinners. I would to start with crappy white bread nutrisweet.

Incidentally, I know you meant well, wotzy. This is just a subject I feel very strongly about. Can you tell? My rant is directed at the nanny state. And not you.

Oh WTF!

"The safest way to find a trustworthy nanny is by contacting a nanny recruitment agency. " My arse. The best was is come onto MN.

LOL at Athene and hands her a large one.

Thanks, mananny. gulp gulp

God I wish I could have a drink too but it's only 4pm here and I have a 4 hour physiology lecture to go to shortly. Might actually understand more of it with a couple of vinos in me LOL

What helpful advice can you give lola then?

And do you think that MN has all the answers? And do you think I feel better because you say, I meant well?

Discuss.

Well, if I do say so myself, i can give a world of helpful advice. Most of which I learned on MN):

1. Never trust an agency. They have a vested interest in inflating the nanny's salary and they are know to lie to you both.
2. Always write your conract for Gross.
3. Refereces are the gospel. Never ever hire a nanny without SPEAKING to the referees.
4. If you need a list of questions to send out before the interview, CAT me. Mine are infamous.
5. If you are looking for a live-in don't underestimate the value of au pair experience. The expereince of living in someone elses's house can be a difficult one, and if she is going to live in your house you might like to know she's done this before.
6. Write SSP only in your contract. And pay sick time at your discretion.
7. CAT me for my house rules and contract. I am happy to share them both.
8. Nannytax is the most expensive payroll company I know of. Try nannypaye.co.uk (or some others that are often mentioned on here but whose names escape me now)
9. Keep the kids out of the nanny's room when she is not on duty. ESPECIALLY saturday morning!

10. Don't forget her birthday. 11. Back her up when the kids play up and you are both in the room.

How's that so far?

Actually, Lola, are you an employer or a nanny?

yes!

What do you mean by

1. Write SSP only in your contract. And pay sick time at your discretion.

I would say no because a basic qualification is now very easy to obtain - the ICP takes 12 hours and you answer some (multiple choice) questions and there are accredited distance learning courses out there. It would just seem lazy to me if a nanny had had the opportunity and hadn't done it because they assumed that they knew everything IYSWIM. Althouugh 'standards' in childcare and 'best practice' change all the time so I'd at least want to know that at some point the nanny had been told something correct and it wasn't all potentially harmful old wives tales. It needn't be an NNEB/DCE/NVQ, although those would be the preferred option for me.

I've outlined my reasons for why nannies should have training before but a brief recap:

A nanny with 5 years experience can have 5 years experience working with 5 children aged 2 years old. A nanny with 5 years experience and a qualification may have only worked as a nanny with 5 children aged 2 years old but will have come into contact with, trained to work with, and have a theoretical background knowledge of, children from birth to 8, thereby increasing the likelihood of them spotting a developmental problem/knowing age appropriate activities.
A nanny with a qualification will not have learnt everything through trial and error. Some things, like employer/employee relationships, only come with experience but with an unqualified nanny you never actually know what they haven't directly experienced and therefore haven't learnt. It could be something major.
A nanny with a qualification shows dedication, commitment (possibly more important without the years of experience because if you have 10 years then you're pretty committed) and a certain level of professionalism regarding their chosen career.
A nanny with a qualification is more likely to be able to carry out observations should the need arise (eg. suspected developmental delay/additional needs) which can speed up the process of diagnosis because the data has been gathered.

It worries me that nannies can work without any basic training . I personally don't think unqualified nannies should be insured (the companies are taking one hell of a risk there!) and I don't believe any nanny should be working without insurance. I know others disagree - this is just my opinion - but the training is there, it's not expensive, it's not a massive time commitment, so why not do it?

So on second thoughts I might if the nanny was prepared to do an ICP or equivalent. But it would very much depend on the nanny.

I didn't mean to write so much.

I suspect athene means that she puts SSP in to deter nannies from throwing sickies and pays in full if it's genuine sickness and she's feeling nice!