Any childminders had problems with parents when it comes to holiday ???

[happyfaceschildcare]

Hi all,
Don't know where to start really a little bewildered by it all !
Basically I mind 3 children full time 2 are siblings and the other is their next door neighbour, last night I gave them some holiday dates I want off for the year one is for 7 days and one is for 5 days and another odd day in March, we have contracts which they have signed saying I have 5 weeks holiday, I don't know how you work but I charge for their absences but charge nothing for my absences thinking that they will need to find alternative care or take unpaid leave so thought this was quite fair but unknown to me last night they all got together and discussed how my holiday requests were unacceptable because they don't want to use their holiday to cover mine and they don't mind using 2 weeks of their holiday to cover mine but they want the other 2 weeks of their annual leave to book as and when they see fit which I do understand but at the same time I am entitled to my holiday surely one of the parents has got quite stroppy and literally left this morning not speaking to me I have tried to explain that when they book their holidays I am still working and as much as they want to book their holiday to suit themselves that's what I want to do to, I have managed to find another childminder near by that is happy to cover odd days but when it comes to more than that they are refusing to take unpaid leave to look after their children and are saying I cannot take more than two weeks !!! I know this is wrong but I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar situation and how they've dealt with it without upsetting and alienating the parents as I want to keep a good working relationship but I know I'm entitled to my holiday....please help !

What does your contract say about holidays? Does it specify how many you'll take in a year?

Thank god its not just me!! And how dare they gang up on you like that?!

I rang the NCMA for advice when it happened to me and they said I can do whatever I like as long as its in the contract that they have signed - I was told by solicitor that if parents are silly enough to sign contracts they don't understand or haven't read then thats their look out not yours.

Some parents (and it sounds like you have some of these - as do I!) view us more as their personal "au pair or nanny" and seem to think they can dictate our working conditions and pay. God don't even get me started!!!

NCMA reccomends 4 weeks holiday (but they've signed yorus for 5 so thats also cool) and its up to us to decide if we charge. They are lucky you don't charge for any of your weeks- I charge for 2 weeks holiday! Any additonal leave is unpaid. It is what it is - you are entitled to holiday and you cannot please every client on your books as to when you take it can you?

If they are that inflexible then I would suggest that a child minder is not appropriate to their needs and they need to look at nurseries instead.

I can understand them, my dh who works in schools cannot take unpaid leave as and when, his holidays are set and though I can cover a couple of weeks a year I would not be able to take 5 weeks off (Christmas and Easter are set for me as the office is closed and I have 3 free choice weeks even if it was holiday and I could not afford paid leave. Hence we chose nursery care which was guaranteed open 50 weeks per year

However if that was in your contract, and it was, and you are not charging when you are away it is not unreasonable. There has to be some give and take though. MOst industries allow their employees to take around 2-3 weeks holiday when they like with other dates being set by the company (a generalisation I know), perhaps you could reduce your holiday to 3 weeks and choose the other two weeks at a time more convenient to the parents.

You don;t have to do this , but it may be worth considering if you don't want to lose them.

island has a good point about schools - I have a policy that unless I am ill I don't take time off in term time because a) my own DS needs an education and b) I have several teachers on my books.

When are the weeks you have booked? Are they in school holls? And island is right - they maybe need nursery or nanny care....

Our CM has just given us holiday dates for June, she's going for two weeks. Obviously we'd rather not use our holiday to cover hers but it's in the contract, she needs a break too, she's given us loads of warning and most importantly of all, DD loves her. Also, she charges full price for her holidays and we think it's perfectly reasonable for her to do so. Paid holidays are pretty much standard in any job where you're not self-employed. Stand firm!

IslandOfSodor, if your children are under five your DP is entitled to unpaid parental leave just like any other employee. I'm a teacher too so I do understand that it's difficult to ask when you have such good holidays anyway, but if needs must it's a statutory right.

same as flea circus, my Childminder takes the last two weeks in August miost years and I'd really rather not go on hols then, but I do because I pretty much (with a little flexibility using my mum) take my holiday to fit in with hers.

a) its in the contract I signed and
b) its really not the end of the world taking holiday same time as her.

Neither are under 5 now but although ds would have been entitled to unpaid leave who can really afford to go without pay for that amount of time a year, plus an employer is allowed to defer such leave for up to 6 minths so if your childminder says I need holiday in March, your employer can say with regards to parental leave can't do March, have June instead.

PLus isnt parental leave a total of 6 weeks to be taken in the first 5 years.

It really sounds like your parents have not thought theiir childcare through properly.

Thank you so much for all you support you start to doubt yourself a little bit, I always see myself as a really reasonable childminder and I do my best to help the parents out the only reason I put 5 weeks instead of 4 is because my own daughter has a hearing problem and I have lots of days where I have to take her to hospital for check ups and stuff so I like to let the parents know this up front and all these dates come out of the 5 weeks, the parents of the siblings have been much more reasonable and they are going to use my back up childminder for the hospital appts and their own holiday for the rest these dates I have booked off are for my honeymoon we get married in October and I want the 7 days for the wedding and honeymoon and then the week in December we are going for another honeymoon with our daughter so I don't think it's unreasonable, like you say I need a break too, last year both families were off at the same time so I only charged them half price as it meant I wouldn't be having any of the children so sort of getting a week off myself even tho it wasn't a week I'd ask for so I think I've helped them out in the past, I do agree that it may be inconvenient for them but I have been minding for 5 years and never had this problem before it makes things so difficult cos I love the children and normally everything runs so smooth I hate all the confrontation. Please keep all the help and advise coming thanks you )

I wonder if it the week in December that is the problem. So many businesses are their busiest in the lead up to Christmas and won't allow holiday or unpaid leave.

My contract allows me to take as much leave as I like . Parents do not pay for my leave, as I assume they will need to find alternative childcare. I help them find this alternative care if they ask for it (which they often do). They take some of their holidays at the same time as me and some at different times. I give them as much notice as possible and if they can take their holiday at the same time as me, then they do, so they don't have to pay me when they are on holiday. Never had a problem with it (so far).

As a mum, I don't think you are at all unreasonable and think the parents are being awful. They signed the contract so they have to deal with it. Terrible that they are ganging up on you - they should instead be putting their energies into working between themselves how to cover your holiday. Between them they might have 4 parents who between them can cover the care of their children, and they have 7 months and 9 months to sort it out!!! You have given them more than reasonable notice IMO.

I've just gone with a nanny for my DS because we wanted the flexibility and control that we would have over her holidays (she takes 3 weeks at our choosing and 1 week at hers). All childcare has advantages and disadvantages and it was their choice to go with a CM so they need to deal with the holiday issue.

They haven't said that it's a problem, they want to take 2 weeks in the summer themselves which would only leave them 2 weeks and I have booked just over 2 weeks that seems to be the issue but they didn't speak to me before they booked their summer holiday they have just told me when they are going yet I have to justify my holiday to them that's the issue they can do as they please yet I have to do as they please too ! they have known about my wedding and 2 honeymoons since I have started minding the children in September we have only just confirmed dates tho. I know you say who can really afford that much unpaid leave but that is why I take it unpaid so that they can pay someone else or take it unpaid themselves, I didn't realise it could be so difficult to take unpaid leave as when I worked when my dd was small my bosses were really flexible, I will speak to them again when she has calmed down and see if we can work something out.

gosh this makes it even worse - its your bloody honeymoon!!!

You stand firm - sorry but I have been mucked about so much by parents in the past that I am strarting to make policies for everything and sticking to them. It seems far fetched but unfortunately some parents have an odd view of childcare......

As I do love having the children and would rather not loose them how would it sound as a compramise if I said I would take 3 weeks leave at my choice, 1 weeks pre agreed by all families (i.e. over christmas as I know one of the mums companies closes at christmas) and the additional 5 days I keep spare for hospital appointments I can arrange alternative cover with my sister in law how is also a registered childminder and lives around the corner ? shows I'm making the efford doesn't it ? or am I being a push over ?

can I remind you its your honeymoon...

you are being a pushover.

If you charged for your holls I would say you needed to compromise - but you don't and you are willing to help them find cover - what more do they want?!

god no don't give in, it's your HONEYMOON!

They signed and they should have reliased at the time of singing and discussed and possibly renegotiated THEN.

If you stand down over this, they'll get you over a barrel for everything - BELIEVE me!

Don't give in. You are a business not an employee and as long as your terms and conditions are clear it's up to you to say when your services are not available. If they were silly enough to go ahead and book their own holiday without checking when you would be 'closed' so they could tie it in, that's their problem.

Incidentally, parental leave is total of 13 weeks, but maximum of 4 weeks a year, and yes it can be postponed.

YOU are not forcing them to take unpaid leave nor to take their holiday when they are closed. If they can't/won't choose an alternative carer - whether this be another childminder or a relative there is nothing you can do about that. You cannot take your holiday to suit them as every family that comes to you might take holiday at different times. Even if these neighbours were to agree to take their holidays together, you might have other clients in the future.

They could take a week off each and look after each others children for free? If there are 2 parents in each household they could manage by taking only 2 1/2 days off each and saving the rest of the holiday at another time. I think its still the case that people can provide childcare for a few days without being registered?

You might want to remind them that if they want to save their holiday to take whenever they like they will have to pay full fees in addition to their holiday costs - as you will be open as usual. So a lot of parents do prefer to take their holiday when the childminder is closed for financial reasons.

I charge 1/2 fees for 4 weeks holiday (1 week at xmas & easter & 2 weeks in summer). Full fees for bank holidays and any other holiday the parents take. £zero for any other closures I have.

oops! ... when YOU are closed.

ayla has a good idea - they can help eachother out if they are that bothered about it - and incidentally I think if you are minding for free you don't have to be registered.......

Thank you I know you are right I was just being a chicken and trying to resolve things without any confrontation but you're right it is up to me when I take my holiday I shall try to stay strong

you go girl!!! (sorry probably not very "mumsnet").....:-)

I have one really bolshy parent who always gives me grief - pays late and expects very flexible hours etc. I took TWO weeks leave only last yr.

Last April (2008) I told all parents about my January (2009) holiday - 3 weeks overseas. It was mentioned in every newsletter since April. She said she knew nothing of it come December and she caused such a stink - her child only comes to me 1 day a week too!

I was having nothing of it. I was polite (as always) but firm. After about the third veeeeery lengthy email of how much money she will lose and how much I was putting her out etc. I mentioned 'does the contract need early reviewing?' She immediately apologised and said she didnt want to fall out with me but leave was so hard for her etc. etc.

But I had given her plenty of notice. And it was for 3 days. But had it been for 3 weeks, I still would have stood my ground. I work very hard (7am to 7pm often - excluding all the paperwork and courses and assignments I do)... and deserve a holiday too! Crazy.

But some people think you are there to fit around THEIR schedule. This is impossible. Stand your ground and take your holiday - your honeymoon - and try not to feel guilty... I have a habit of feeling guilty sometimes when I cannot mind a child on a day I dont usually mind them/cannot babysit for them etc. and I must'nt... I have a feeling you do too... stay firm

You poor thing, I find this type of thing so hard as well. I don't charge for my holidays but charge for parents holidays, as you explained, not everyone (I have 5 families) can work their holidays to the same dates. When this comes up during contract negotiation, so many are unhappy I charge for their holidays, but I politely remind them that most (not all) get paid holiday from their companies, but I don't. I also mention that pre-schools and private nurseries will still charge if the place isn't used. I also don't charge for bank holidays, which can be a killer at Easter and Christmas.

I am looking at changing to a 50/50 basis giving everyone 5 weeks half charge, its something that I have found some of the local childminders do as it cushions the blow if I am on holiday I do get some pay, and if they are on holiday they aren't paying for full. Still mulling it over though so any advice would be appreciated.