Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

[Tanzie]

Having read on another thread ("Paying Nannies when sick") gripes from UK nannies about jobs going to girls from accession countries who will work for less, (and do more in the way of housework), is this not just pushing the market rate down for qualified/experienced nannies?

I am not in UK, but I would look at it as providing more affordable childcare, provided you can find someone trustworthy and reliable. I lived in UK briefly about 4 years ago and a nanny friend of mine was earning GBP 25,000 and got a flat thrown in with it. This is more than I was earning at the time and could never have afforded this sort of money for someone to look after my children.

I am not suggesting slave labour from Central European girls, or paying them an au pair's "pocket money" for what is essentially a nanny job, but paying them a reasonable wage and providing free accommodation means that a lot of people, who could not afford a nanny or nursery fees, will probably be able to get back to work.

Of course, there will always be those who want a Norland nanny and can afford one, but it seems to me that your average Mum would welcome these Central Europeans with open arms...

I'll run and hide now...

I sure Americot2005 if, a professional person, someone was to devalue your work which you do to the best of your ability with sarcastic comments which my previous example was one of many then you would be offended. Further I didn't see many comments that were self depreciating at all the were all mostly directed at the work of so called English Nannies.

I personally haven't taken offence but have been shocked at the sharpness of your attacks and condisending attitude towards those that are defending their profession.

I agree Marypop1.

But judging by the nasty and sarcastic remarks made by Americascot2005, she's probably too thick skinned to take much notice.

Pity her au pair! (who I'm sure she'll say loves her job and employer).

Oh, lay off of Ameriscot. She has been direct and bit less than polite but she has kept to the fact (apart from the the tartan table remark, which I as a Scottish American actually thought was funny, but I can see how some wouldn't).

Regarding the cost to pay nanny that I typed earlier, I figured that all of the employers income was taxed at 40%, then he/she has to pay nanny's tax and then he/she has to pay employer tax for the amount paid to nanny. All of that adds up to a gross pay of 56k (or whatever I typed below... can't recall now) that the parent must go earn... it simply is not a realistic expectation for parents to be forking out that kind of money. There are of course some who can and will pay this, but it can't possibly be the norm. Most working parents simply don't earn that kind of money.

Oh, and I read a couple of remark from nannies that they need this money to pay their mortgage. I rent my house because I can't afford a mortgage, so I'm not going to feel obligated to give you what I can't afford for myself. And,I am not alone. Look at the market. A lot of people rent because they can't afford to buy. So I hardly regard that as one of life's necessities.

Just a pedantic point - surely it can't be "racist" to compare English/Scottish/European people. All these are the same race - European (or Caucasian in US-speak).
I'd think "nationalist" would be more accurate.

didnt think Ameriscot was being particularly nasty tbh, sarcastic yes but hey... aren't the Brits known for their black humour? Though it seems grammar and spelling still seems to be a problem for some

As for pot & kettle... everybody is entitled to their opinion and going by what I've seen on the thread on nannyjob everybody has...

Why don't we just all agree to disagree and sum it up as...

qualifications are NOT everything
experience, trust and mutual respect IS
and of course the idividual financial situation of nanny and/or parent is factor as well
and not to forget free labour market which keeps the economy going

Uwila, I agree parents are in a really difficult position finding childcare and its not easier if you work in the childcare industry. I really don't think its an English nanny v anything else issue. Its an issue that childcare is to expensive and those that work in childcare don't get paid particularly well (considering the level of work involved) because a large portion of it goes in taxes.

uwila, I'm afraid you are exagerating how much the govnt takes from you...40% is certainly nowhere near the overall tax take on my pay. Actually if kitschnanny is grossing around 30K then she is costing about the same as I earn - again, nowhere near £56k (gross) unfortunately!

Elliot, I was using a bot of a worst case scenario and assuming the employer makes quite a lot of money, whereas all of the money that goes to nanny comes from the 40% portion of his / her salary. So, if he/she brings in £200,000 then I was crediting the forst £144,00o elsewhere.

Granted, it's an extreme example. I'm just making a point. Also, I think some £400+ per week net is a rather high salary to start with. I'm just pointing out that at the highest tax rate, it takes some 50k to pay nanny some 30k.

but under those assumptions uwila your fictitious employer is already earning at least £35000 more than the nanny is costing - in which case they can well afford it, imo. Doesn't really help make your case that nannies are too expensive for 'us poor old middle class folks'

Well, I suppose. I did use the most expensive scenio I could think of. I just wanted to demonstrate how much money one would have to be earning to pay a salary like £400+ per week net. Most people would struggle to afford half of that.

Amen, Issy!

Kitschnanny grosses £30750 and her boss must pay an employer?s NI contribution of £3362 for employing her. Cost of her employment to the family = £34112 pa.

To earn £34112 after tax and NI, her boss must earn approximately £50400 pa. (Tax £12120, NI £4141 = deductions £16261, net £34139).

(OK it's £27 out - can you do better?)

Message withdrawn

very good stuartc. So uwila wasn't that far out after all (I was assuming the gross included all the employers expenses).
But I doubt many nannys will be on 30k.
Now we'd better all get a life

"Just a pedantic point - surely it can't be "racist" to compare English/Scottish/European people. All these are the same race - European (or Caucasian in US-speak).
I'd think "nationalist" would be more accurate."

Ok, so they are nationalist rather than racist. The point i wanted to make was that its wrong to stereotype all english nannies as some of the things that have been said in this thread. I believe every nanny should be viewed as an individual. A potential employer you should be concerned with how good the applicants references are & how many years experience she has rather than what country she comes from. Although some of you seem more concerned with how many times a week she will clean the toilet & whether or not she will accept cash in hand wages than whether or not she is interested in caring for your precious children safely!!

Go Izzy!!!