Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Questions about someone childminding unregistered. . .

125 replies

bestfriendswithbenefits · 07/02/2009 20:28

I know someone who looks after their neice for two whole days a week. As a blood relative, I'm assuming this is legal? She's recently started looking after another little girl ( aged 2 ) for someone else, but is, as far as I'm aware, not registered. She's getting paid to mind them both. How can I find out if she's registered? And if she's not, should I do anything about it? Who do I report it to? Am I just being a sticky beak? I know she is aware of childminding regulations, so it's not just a mistake on her part. thanks.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

nannynick · 08/02/2009 19:58

The OP asked some specific questions which we are attempting to answer for them.

How can I find out if she's registered?

Ask to see her registration certificate.
Contact your local authority Children Information Service and provide the person's name and address and see if they can give any information (data protection act may prevent them from doing so).
Contact the regulator and ask them.

And if she's not, should I do anything about it?

Clearly some people feel you should not do anything, while others of us feel you should report what you know to the relevant authority, so that that authority can decide if they wish to pursue and investigation.

Who do I report it to?

England - Ofsted - 08456 014772
Wales - CSSIW - 01443 848450 (head office), or contact a local office.
Scotland - Care Commission - 0845 603 0890 (local office) or 01382 207100 (head office)

Am I just being a sticky beak?

Some people think so... while others don't. Suggest you make your own judgement.

LauraEd · 08/02/2009 21:11

Im a reg childminder but i think reporting this is wrong - yes i agree if this person was looking after somones kids who didnt know her its miss advising but .... come on this is the kids Aunt so im pretty sure no amount of insurance could take over from this.... before i was registered i had my 2 sisters (6) kids pretty much every weekend (who might i add were all under 5)I never took any payment for this but looking at ofsteads regulations i would have been well over my numbers but both of my sisters know me well enough to trust me.

Im all up for the reg's for this but when its family does it really matter this Aunt probably has more love for the kids than a registered childminder who is unrelated would have. the parents are the loosers here as cant claim working tax credits against the childminder.

SlightlyMadScotland · 08/02/2009 21:18

We know that the neice isn't the problem (it isn't classed as childminding if it is family). It is the friend of the eice that she is looking after that is being questioned.

ScottishMummy · 08/02/2009 21:27

if she doesn't advertise or purport to be a CM then what is the problem?in RL many family members watch niece/nephew for money

what would compel you to interfere in a private family arrangement?

as for the other child,well frankly if all concerned are happy and safe why would you report this

is there a reason you would wish to draw attention to this female?have concerns been expressed/observed.if this is child welfare issue then by all means do proceed.if is about issues between you and her think of the disruption to two parents you will cause

in RL people do use friends/neighbours for remuneration

SlightlyMadScotland · 08/02/2009 21:33

For those that are asking the harm

What would you do if you saw someone (a friend maybe) stumbling out of a pub and getting into teh drivers seat of their car?

I know it is different, with potentially different consequences....but legally it is no different.

ScottishMummy · 08/02/2009 21:36

your comparison bears no relation to the situation being described.emotive feelings about drunk driving are 1000miles away from an informal consensual childcare arrangement

nannynick · 08/02/2009 21:39

But legally it is the same... it is someone breaking the law.

SlightlyMadScotland · 08/02/2009 21:41

SM...I said that it was emotionally different but legally the same.

ScottishMummy · 08/02/2009 21:44

yes.but in RL make parents make such arrangements.what is the gain to be made?what about effect upon the families concerned?what if this is their only viable/affordable childcare solution

morocco · 08/02/2009 21:44

why do you really want to report her?

are you worried about child safety? then even if she was registered, you should be doing something

otherwise, none of your business

nannynick · 08/02/2009 21:45

What if it was a nursery? If they were un-registered... would you report that?

I ask this because as I far as I can see from the history of childminding, the legislation we have now has come about because the government wanted to regulate Group Childcare.

ScottishMummy · 08/02/2009 21:47

look i think this about more than who watches whom,does OP have issue with this woman?is this rouse to create some trouble?she hasn't raised child welfare issues

ScottishMummy · 08/02/2009 21:49

that is a different argument,off at a tangent.if falsely purports to be nursery,then report it.as far as we know the woman isn't claiming any CM status

morocco · 08/02/2009 22:01

yep, I'd report a nursery but I wouldn't report 2 friends who come to a private arrangement over childcare where there is no concern over child welfare

reckon op has some other reason for wanting to report her

nannynick · 08/02/2009 22:02

We don't know a lot of things...
the OP's motive for asking the question
if the Grandmother concerned is now offering a childcare service
if any child is at risk of abuse
if the Grandmother is actually a registered CM
Plus lots of other things I expect we don't know.

Back in time... childminders who only cared for one child didn't need to be registered. When they cared for 2 or more they did need to be registered. This is due to the Government at that time (1950's) wanting to regulate Group Childcare... a nursery is providing Group Childcare and so is a childminder who is caring for children from multiple families.
What was found back in the 50's was that workplace nurseries didn't become popular... instead it was childminding that grew in popularity. Thus legislation was modified to impose more restrictions on childminders, such as limiting the number of children for whom they could care.

wannaBe · 08/02/2009 22:11

oh come on let's be honest here this has nothing to do with child safety it's about money.

The law states that if you are caring for a child for more than two hours a day for payment then you need to be registered as a childminder. So if you're not being paid you can look after someone else's child for 23 hours a day and you are not accountable to anyone.

Sounds like bitterness from cm's on this thread re someone potentially daring to use their own friends as childcare rather than putting business their way.

As for ofsted's exacting standards well we all know that childminders work in networks and that most of them have a system to warn each other when ofsted are on their way...

KatyMac · 08/02/2009 22:12

IMO (& I may be wrong) this is about more than unregistered care it's about respecting the laws laid down by the government and preventing a slow, relentless slip in to anarchy.

So people can just chose which laws they keep & which they break?
So you can chose

whether to use registered or unregistered care
whether to pay tax
whether to speed
whether to drink/drive
whether any law is worthy of our respect or whether we know better

These rules were brought in for a reason - presumably to protect children - the government may have been wrong to bring in the laws that they do, however once they are in place, I believe, that all people should collaborate in the implementation of those laws

If everyone states "it's not my business what other people do" and we start to live in a subculture where obeying the law is seen to be 'wrong/bad' - this has happened on various estates and the police/authorities don't visit these places alone.

I truly believe that if we have the right to decide whether a law is right before we (as a society) insist on it's implementation then the system is wrong

I do accept that this may not be a popular view - but I think that the law is there for everyone & that you cannot choose to just 'opt out'

Sawyer64 · 08/02/2009 22:16

I think for this to be illegal is ridiculous.

I looked after a friend/colleagues child for 2.5 days a week when she was able to go back to work and I wasn't (we are both nurses)

It suited both of us for her to pay me.This was a Private arrangement between friends,absoulutely no business of anyone else.

I wasn't a Childminder,I was looking after a friends child. I would do it again today if I needed to.
I wasn't trying to mislead anyone,and I couldn't provide "professional" care,but it suited us both financially to do it this way.

I don't get this illegal business!

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 08/02/2009 22:19

You're being a sticky beak. FGS what concern is it of yours.

I use an unregistered childminder as there is no registered childminder available in the village. I am a sensible adult who can judge whether someone can look after my daughter without needign OFSTED to tell me she's OK.

Some total bitch reported my childminder and she was investigated by Ofsted. Who thankfully didn't seem too bothered, though I suspect my childminder may have fibbed about DD's age (its ok if they're 8 or over). But if Ofsted had fined her/made her stop then I would have to give up work and then we'd be on the breadline.

Are you prepared to be responsible for that?

wannaBe · 08/02/2009 22:31

you cannot compare looking after a friend's child with speeding or any other law that might be broken.

Of course if you are advertising for children then you need to be registered, but we are talking an informal arrangement here which tbh could not be proven by anyone anyway so it's highly unlikely ofsted would be able to do anything about it.

nannynick · 08/02/2009 22:33

The same arguments have been ongoing now for over 60 years. When the Nurseries and Child Minders Regulation Act 1948 was passed as law, some people continued to use un-registered childcare providers... and it still happens now.

If you don't agree with the law as it stands, then raise your objection with your MP. Then perhaps the Government will rethink childcare legislation.

Meanwhile the law stands... and anyone who breaches that law faces the consequences of doing so.

Hassled · 08/02/2009 22:34

It doesn't matter whether you think it's ridiculous that it's illegal or not - what KatyMac was pointing out is that you can't choose which laws you want to obey, and which you'll ignore. The laws were made by our elected representatives. And the law is very clear - looking after a child in your home for reward (which doesn't have to be money - you could pay in Curly Wurlies and the same would apply) is illegal.

I'm not necessarily aiming this at the OP - more at the general view that laws are a sort of pick and mix optional extra.

wannaBe · 08/02/2009 22:34

and I don't believe anyone is so law abiding that they would need to report this. The only reason anyone would report this imo would be if they were a stirring so-and-so who had an axe to grind.

A child's welfare is not at steak here so keep out of it.

nannynick · 08/02/2009 22:44

The other child concerned is 2 years old. The person providing the childcare could have a pond in their garden, they could have dogs, both of which could pose a hazard to the 2 year old child. We don't know if this child is at risk... they may be.

If that child is found dead tomorrow afternoon... what will you be saying then? That 2 year old may walk into the garden, that garden may have a pond, the pond may be frozen over, the child may walk on the pond, the ice may break, the child may drown in ice cold water.

The rules are there to help prevent that sort of accident occurring. It does still alas happen but the registration of childminders does go some way to help prevent such instances.

We may not agree with the 2 hour rule. We may not agree with EYFS. But surely we do want to help protect young children.

SlightlyMadScotland · 08/02/2009 22:57

I think that KatyMac and hassled have hit the nail onteh head.

The law is the law and theay are not there for us to pick and choose which ones we fancy obeying. And we can't do an awful lot about them - whether we agree with them or not.

The right thing to do is to report. But that is not our decision to make and I think we have all made our varied opinions known.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5