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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Help - Problem with CM

25 replies

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:07

I hope someone can give me some good advice. DS has been with CM for 2 yrs and she has been really good, and he has alwayd enjoyed going there. Originally he went 4 days per week (my mum has him for 1 day), now it is 3 days. Before I went down to 3 days I discussed it with her first and it was my CM who asked me to have Fridays as my day off - which I did.

CM kept asking me to swop my days (still to go 3 days but to switch them around) but it wasn't convenient and I said I couldn't do it. 2 weeks ago CM gave us notice that she could no longer give me 3 days a week, only 2 days a week and these would have to be different days to what we have now. I was upset as she had done this in order to take someone else on full time, but has chosen to inconvenience us rather than the other mindee who hasn't been there as long. Anywat these 2 days a week weren't good for us so we started looking for alternative childcare and I'm seeing some places next week.

The notice period CM gave us ends on 20th Feb, and if I could find other arrangements by then I was planning to move him as soon as the notice period finished. I paid CM today for this week and next week, (we don't pay for half terms if mindees don't go during the holidays), and I put a note in stating that as I wasn't yet sure of what arrangements we were making about childcare i.e if we were going to accept her offer of 2 different days or not, I was paying for the 2 full weeks left and would let her know what we were doing ASAP.

DH collected DS today and CM hands him a contract and tells him that contract finishes tomorrow and if he doesn't sign a new one then we won't have any childacre. DH signs it as he was busy trying to get DS out of the house (I know he should have read it and so does he now!) When I saw it, she's got him to sign a new contract for the 2 days a week (thereby ensuring that we have to give notice of 4 weeks) and the old contract does not state that it tuns out today and specifically says that it is in force untilterminated or replaced by a new one.

I really feel that CM has been underhand about this as DH is partially deaf and I always dealwith contract issues ect.

Sorry for the relly long post - ifanyone gets to the end I would be grateful for any advice. I know that as he's signed it we're not in a trong position legally at all, but also wanted to know if others thought this was a bit off?

OP posts:

nannyL · 04/02/2009 20:09

it sounds as if she is being very unfair and even unreasonable

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:11

I really did too, but wasn't sure if it was just me. I have been upset about her giving us notice and changing our days and not the others and thought it might be me not having got over that yet.

OP posts:

CarGirl · 04/02/2009 20:12

I think she has been very underhand as she did not give your DH the opportunity to read it!

I would phone NCMA and see what they say.

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:14

Can NCMA do anything about it though do you think? Do they have some sort of dispute resolution service?

OP posts:

abbierhodes · 04/02/2009 20:16

I'm not a legal expert but don't contracts have a cooling off period? Or are they supposed to be witnessed? Personally, I wouldn't worry about breaking a contract that was signed under those circumstances, I can't imagine she'd get very far taking legal action or similar.

CarGirl · 04/02/2009 20:17

It can't hurt either. Your only other option is to complain about her to ofsted.

If she gave you notice to end on the 20th Feb I do not understand why she said you would not have childcare as the contract ends tomorrow?

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:23

Yes, I know. DH says that is what she told him. He got confused and thought she was saying that the 4 week notice period ended tomorrow (he's not good with dates) and that the 2 days a week thing started from next week, and that's why he signed it as we haven't got any other childacre sorted yet. It's only when he was driving home that he thought that it wasn't 4 weeks since we'd been given notice and when I looked at he contract I saw what she had done.

I know she was annoyed at the thought that DS might not be going back after half term and that she'd be left without a mindee for those days, but she gave us the notice in the first place - she must have anticipated that we'd say it wasn't conveneinet and find an alternaive?

OP posts:

CarGirl · 04/02/2009 20:33

It's the end of the road though isn't it. Just give her notice tomorrow and hope that you find something in 4 weeks time!

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:37

Yes - DH wants to do that tomorrow! I'm seeing a CM and a nursey next week who both have a vacancy so I'm sure we'll be sorted by 4 weeks time.

I'm just annoyed that she's taken advanctage of DH - he should not have signed it but as he doesn't always hear everything he doesn't like to make a fuss in case people think he's a bit stupid.

OP posts:

NAB09 · 04/02/2009 20:38

Didn't Dh lose the contract when it blew out of his hand when he was getting DC out of the car?

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 20:48

He could have done - only CM has a copy with his signature on - so we're probably on a sticky wicket if we refuse to pay.

OP posts:

NAB09 · 04/02/2009 20:51

I would pay her up to the original notice date, let her chase you for the 4 weeks she has bullied you into, and send the children to granny's or something until you fix up a nursery. ie - not send my child there again.
She has messed you about and taken advantage of your Dh wanting to get home.

ssd · 04/02/2009 20:55

I wouldn't pay her, I'd tell her I was phoning ofsted/the care commission/local council who register childminders to get their advice on a CM who behaves this way

she won't chase you for the money, she'd need to take you to the small claims court and it wouldn't be worth it

she's being very underhand, don't let her bully you

ssd · 04/02/2009 20:57

and I'd tell her you will be speaking to all the other parents she childminds for to let them know how she operates, even if you have to sit in the car and wait for them coming out of her house!

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 04/02/2009 21:02

Thanks for the responses - I'm reassured by the fact that other people think this is not a fair way to behave! I really don't mind paying what we owe, and I knew she thought that we should give notice if we didn't want to accept her offer of 2 other days, and I was gearing myself up for that difficult conversation. I just never thought she would try anything like this.

OP posts:

missymoo2411 · 04/02/2009 21:17

cant u meet sooner with the new cm so that u can think of starting ds with her or just use her for short period

HSMM · 05/02/2009 08:09

I can understand her decision to take on a full time child and I can understand your decision not to accept the 2 days offered, but I cannot understand why she has tried to force this contract on you! Good luck with sorting it out.

nomoreamover · 05/02/2009 10:38

ok legally you have to pay her the 4 weeks notice she originally gave.

The additonal contract she gave you - I'm afriad as your DH signed it you have to pay the 4 weeks on that - check the old contract didn't have a review date on it - if it did and the review date is feb 090 then she can get away with what she did - although its a bit mean it would be above board.

She has been a little unfair in terms of the notice periods and contract and you have every right to be annoyed about it - but I think phoning ofsted is below the belt. You have been really happy with the care she has given to date - its just a disagreement in terms of days worked. You can't ring ofsted to "get back at her" - that complaint would stay with her forever and you could risk getting into trouble yourself if she is a member of NCMA and chooses to take it further

Pay the four weeks and get someone else - walk away with your head high and foget about her - don't get dragged into an argument over it

HTH

CarGirl · 05/02/2009 12:55

well the CM has been underhand at getting them to sign a new contract, surely part of the ofsted registration is about good contract and paperwork procedures. I do think it would be reasonable to complain to ofsted about the way the contract review was handled - we're not talking about her lying about her CM.

However it would be better first to raise the issue with your CM and do so in writing.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 05/02/2009 13:03

Just to add that OFSTED are not interested in contractual issues at all

CarGirl · 05/02/2009 13:21

The biggest question was why when the CM had given them notice did she require them to renew a contract????? It would be interesting to see what the review date was on the originaly contract, if it just says Feb and no date then there was no need to sign it anyway as the notice period ran out mid feb.

alibubbles · 05/02/2009 13:31

I am a c/m and I am shocked. Contracts are signed together after you have both read them, with two parents, my contracts are signed by both parents as you are jointly liable for the fees

If she has both your names on the contract and you haven't signed it, it won't be valid, check whose names it is made out in.

Very unprofessional of the childminder.

Original poster

Lawrene8 · 05/02/2009 21:03

Thanks for the replies. The review date for the contract did say Feb 09 but did not have a date. I find it really underhand that after receiving a note from me on Tues AM (explaining I wasn't sure if we were going to accept her offer of 2 other days) she then tricks DH into signing a contract that evening by telling him unthruthfully that the old contract had expired.

The very first contract I had with her had a review date after 6 months, but we did not renew it until 18 months later. The contract also specifically says that it remains in force until terminated or renewed, so she was lying when she said DH had to sign or we would have no childcare for next week.

I'm taking legal advice about our position on Monday. I didn't think that Ofsted would be interested - I'm planning to speak to her supervisor about her behaviour. CMs in my area have one but I don't think they do this everywhere.

OP posts:

CarGirl · 05/02/2009 21:30

I think I would just use her until the date of notice she gave you and let her go to small claims for the other 2 weeks, I don't think they would uphold it under the circumstances.

star1976 · 05/02/2009 21:42

I'm a childminder and think that what she has done gives us a bad name!

Very underhand, just pay up to the original end of contract date that she gave you. She knows that she was trying to screw you, hopefully she will just think 'oh well was worth a try' and forget about chasing you for any more money.

Good luck

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