nanny abused! Advice!

[purplebee]

We took on a young nanny you seemed such a sweetheart (and she is). Now she is feeling more comfortable with us, she comes to work and shares more horror stories with us. Her boyfriend beats her up, her father is in and out of prison and today she mentioned that her brother was in a gang and was stabbed last year.
Everything about her life outside of work seems dreadful. I feel really uncomfortable because, for a start, I want to help her and don't know how. Second, I wanted a nanny to ease my worries not add to them! I come from a very different background to her, and all of this is scaring me. My dd is two and she is lovely with him.

Also, she mentioned she smokes and she definately put non smoker on her application.

I really don't know what to do. I'm caught in a PC hell. I can't sack her because she is an abuse victim, but then her blase attitude to it freaks me out!

What would you do? I need advice!

Thanks

As an employer you have a duty of care to your employee. In this case that means providing her with helpline numbers of suitable organisations that can provide her with advice.
The smoking thing is more of a problem. Do you have it listed in the Gross Misconduct section of the contract?
Do you have evidence that she smokes whilst at work?
Do you have her origional application info, so you can see clearly that at that time she claimed not to smoke?

no, I have no evidence she smokes at work, she just told me herself that she looks forward to her cigarette on her way home (I'm a coward for not saying anything then and there)
If she didn't voluteer so much info it would be fine!
When I sat her down and told her she was experiencing domestic abuse was that her boyfriend doesn't hit her regularly, the most recent time was the first in a few months.
I want to cuddle her and look after her but that's not the way I want to feel about a nanny!
I have told her if she ever wants to leave her boyfriend, she can stay with us and she said 'he's only come hammering on your door in the middle of the night'. not good.

I would sack her for the smoking if it was me.

Oh dear..I would sack her first for lying..and 2nd of all you dont know she could be meeting her partner when your at work..sorry to raise this issue but it has to be addressed..how old is she? thats what i cant stand..people give us young nannies a chance and 80percent of them are so ungrateful of the oppourtunity they have been given..im 19 nearly 20 working in a nursery since 16 but it was sooo hard to find a nanny job because of my age!

Are you sure she's telling the truth about all this?

Why would you think she'd be meeting her partner during work supernanny19?

The only grounds you really have for complaint as her boss is the smoking, if she told you before she was a non-smoker. But still, if she's only smoking outside work hours, I don't know if it would be grounds for disciplinary action. Her personal problems aren't your business really unless it effects her work. If it scares you to hear about it, ask her not to tell you.

tricky - you want to support her but you also dont need her hassles

you should have brought up the smoking issue there and then but as you didnt , you are going to have to wait till she mentions it agiun or ask her if she smokes and then comment on it if she says yes, as she said she wasnt

Tankie-Because i used to know this nanny that spun the same sort of stories and she had her bf in the familys home as soon as they left for work..one day she got caught and got sacked she also said she was a non smoker but her name should of been chimney!

Even if in the interview she said she is not a smoker, it could be that she only started now during to stress. If she smokes after work, nothing you can say.

Regarding the boyfriend, i dont agree with asking her not to tell you (although i agree with the rest of tankie's post). I would prefer to know how the situation is going, especially if she leaves him. These short of men dont take rejection very well and if she leaves him he could go follow her in the park when she has your DD...

I dont mean to scare you but i would prefer to know

if she said she was a non smoker than she lied if she smokes

its not if she said im a social smoker,i smoke in eveings etc

Tiramissu - i agree!
Got to look out for your wee one!

Oh dear - this reminds me of our first nanny (about whom I have posted ad nauseum), who had a 'complicated life' although was not being beaten up at least. As supernanny19 warned, in our case nanny brought her dp to our house occasionally (our eldest was 5 and was able to tell me that 'X' had been sleeping on our sofa that afternoon and friends who knew the nanny told me that they had seen her out in my car with her dp and my children). Our nanny also took our children to her house on occasion (without our permission). They came back stinking of cigerette smoke which is how I found out.
The thing with nannies is that they have no supervision during their working day (unlike office staff etc ) so you have to be able to really really trust them... and I would find it difficult to continue to employ your nanny (on the smoking issue alone).

What do you want to achieve?
Nothing to prevent you giving notice under the terms of contract if you want rid. But is that what you want?
Your childs safety is your No1 priority.

Hmmm, this is very tricky. I agree that you shouldn't have to 'mother' a nanny, but on the other hand, the boyfriend sounds like trouble, and if he is abusive, she may not have much say in whether he comes to 'visit' her at work.

So, it sounds like an ideal solution would be to encourage her to ditch scumbag, but not hold her hand completely? If it were me (and this is easy to type when it's not my children involved) I think I would sit her down and have a serious chat along the lines of:

'You're doing very well here and we all like you...but we are worried about your boyfriend...what you are describing does not sound like a normal relationship and it worries us that he might come in contact with the children...we think it might be a good idea for you to talk to these people (insert good website or helpline details here) about what is happening in your relationship and how to change it for the better...and in the meantime, we require an absolute guarantee that scumbag will have no contact with the children, on pain of instant dismissal'

On a cautious note, I don't think it's a good idea to say outright that she ought to ditch him, because you don't want him standing on your doorstep hurling abuse. A better technique is to get her to talk to a peer group that can persuade her that this is dodgy and give her the support she needs to leave. You'll have to cut her some slack, though, if she does manage it, because I imagine she might be in a bit of a mess emotionally for a good few months. That's when she'll need a bit of support, but if she is a good nanny, it's an investment worth making.

supernanny19 - in what way is she ungrateful of the oppertunity she has been given??

and what has working in a nursery since you were 16 got to do with anything? clearly purplebee feels this girl is up to being her nanny as she gave her a job in the first place... I feel that maybe your comments are slightly unhelpful

anyway, back to the task at hand!
purplebee, this is a subject very close to my heart, if you would like to, please feel free to email me on westlondonnanny [at] googlemail [dot] com

however, can you be sure she isn't making this up? I feel a bit bad for saying that but it does seem like quite a lot!

I think that the smoking isn't an issue if she genuinely doesn't smoke at work, I think you'd be able to smell it at any rate

purplebee - bit of a random question, but does your name begin with S? I think I may have applied to your job before christmas??

WWOFW- i went off subject if you didnt notice

yes, yes I did lol

Agree with gizmo, the boyfriend sounds very scary(if its true), and you dont want anyone like him within a million miles of your dd.
I understand the desire to support her but this could put your child in some danger.
If you advise her to get rid she might tell him and then the concequences to your family could be very unpleasent. You could sack her over the smoking issue... sorry to sound hard but for me its a case of dd first.

purplebee, I'm sorry but this is sending lots of warning bells. I think you got it right when you said 'I want to cuddle her and look after her but that's not how I want to feel about a nanny.'

I don't think she's very professional to be sharing all of this with you, and in any case, it would make me very worried about her with my child. What if boyfriend comes to see her in the park with your 2-year-old? Sounds as though she's submissive with him...and even disregarding him, I'd say she doesn't sound very confident or responsible in herself (smoking, being with an abusive boyfriend, sharing all this with employers).

I would get rid.

I would suspect that if you can't prove she is smoking or has smoked when looking after your child then smoking after work is probably not grounds for instant dismissal, certainly it is unlikely that anything else would be either. Gizmo's approach seems a good one to me, and maybe some of the helplines might be able to give you some advice too. I have had some slightly similar issues in a work environment and it is really tricky I think. Hard to know how much leeway to give someone at the best of times, but especially in the nanny-boss relationship.

Sorry, didn't have the clearest head on a few hours ago. Let me try to explain again.

I think the signs are saying she could be a flight risk. If her boyfriend leaves her, or she leaves him, where will she go? Being with you would probably not be the best idea (as she said he would come banging on your door - omg at that!) and it sounds as if her family is very all over the place. I'm presuming she doesn't have a wide network of friends, as if she did she most likely wouldn't be telling you this as her boss. There is a different line between nanny-mum than in other jobs, but I still think it's a bit over the top. Also think it's quite odd that you 'just hired her' and she is already coming out with all of this.

Also, some have said smoking outside work hours isn't grounds for dismissal. I completely disagree. I think that if you had stipulated a non-smoker in your advert, and she had stated she wasn't, that this is grounds for dismissal. It certainly is for us. If she is a casual smoker and has picked it up lately as someone else suggested before, I would ask her to stop (as she isn't addicted at this point and maybe doesn't need any whilst caring for your child). However, nanny hours tend to be long, and I would be highly surprised if she went 9-10 hours plus without a cigarette if she does smoke.

I think in the line of childcare, smoking is unacceptable. So I would get rid on that alone, plus all the other factors make her sound a bit shaky to me.

The legal bit: If she lied on her application then she is guilty for misrepresentation and that is a criminal offence. Now you might think that a police officer might have difficulty keeping a straight face if you went in and complained but you certainly have grounds to fire her if you are someone who genuinely would not have taken her on had you known she smoked. You have the right to expect scrupulous honesty because of the core of trust between nanny and parent and she has breached that right. And if she has worked for you for less than a year you have the right to dismiss her for anything so long as it is not discrimantory, and certainly smoking would be an OK reason.

The personal bit: You have allowed this relationship to become way too personal. You are an employee first and foremost. Your nanny has a professional responsibility to you and it seems that this has been blurred far too much - she is not acting professionally (and I say this as one who has had nannies and AP's and I know that you do become friends and confidants.

The most concerning thing for me is whether or not she is emotionally equipped to look after your children. I say this for loads of reasons:-

1. She lied about smoking - it is very immature to do this, and if you are going to do this when applying for a job, you have to come clean and 'fess up when you get the job. The fact that she didin't and then starts blithely tlaking about smoking to you just makes me wonder how much is going on upstairs (and how much respect she has for you).
2. If she dismisses her responsibilities toward you so lightly regarding smoking, will she follow any of your rules?
3. She is not being a very good judge of character - waxing lyrically about the stuff in her life and not even pickign up the vibes that these things are a concern to you and not really normal things to talk to a boss about
4. If she gossips like this to you about her home life, what kind of thing is she gossipping about to her friends elsewhwere? You? Your home situation? Your taste in clothes? Whether you are a soft touch? Have a think about it.
5. If she is not strong enough to stand up against her boyfriend, to what extent can you rely on her strength in any kind of situation which your children might be involved in?

You may feel as if you are mothering her but I wonder if she thinks you are a bit of a soft touch - if she's late for work would she apologise furiously and make the time up, or would her lip start to tremble whilst she launches into a disaster story about how she couldn't leave the house because of X,Y and Z

She may seem very vulnerable to you but you say yourself how blase she is - I think she is very streetwise, and you are not.....

You are unhappy with the situation. That unhappiness is not going to magic itself away. I think you should extract yourself sooner and not later because things will not improve. How are you going to feel when your children are talking and she is one of the most influential people in their lives? What kind of lessons will be learnt?

You can sack her and I think that you should. You can either tell her it is not working full stop, and not give a reason, tell her that the smoking concerns you and you feel you are struggling to regain trust in her and that it is therefore not fair on either of you to continue, or if you want to be nicer then tell her that you think you want a different type of nanny (live-in, more flexible, one who cooks from scracth, one who is a keen swimmer or fitness fanatic - basically anything you like so long as it is that she won't be able to do). When you tell her, give her a ready-prepared written reference that is very kind and raves about all her good points, and give her plenty of notice. It is up to you to decide if you offer her a continued role as a 'friend' or shoulder to cry on.

I am sorry if that sounds really harsh. But you cannot leave your children with someone who you simply do not feel right about. and that has to be the priority. Every parent accepts a few things that don't gel between them and the people who look after their kids, but the gaps here are pretty fundamental to the concept of trust, and I don't think you can compromise there.

Well said, Squiffy!

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply on this, very spot-on advice. The other mothers who have met her at our playgroups all rave about how wonderful she is with the children. I think it's time for a chat...thanks again everyone.