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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Have signed contract with cm, now discovered something...

41 replies

cactuslady · 14/01/2009 07:44

Sorry, in a bit of a rush...posting this for a friend. She's signed a contract with a new childminder. Will be no driving involved, as cm can't drive.

Over the weekend, she spotted this childminder in car, with cm's dh driving, with her own three children in car obviously not wearing seatbelts - youngest is 7. She made some enquiries and discovered that it is well known that this cm doesn't usually bother with seatbelts for her own kids.

Is she justified in terminating her contract immediately? I say she is. CM saying that as friend's child will never be in car, she cannot and must pay for month's notice period. Child due to start on Monday...

OP posts:

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NAB3lovelychildren · 14/01/2009 07:48

I would cancel immediately. Pay if you have to as a few quid is worth the safety of your child. If she doesn't use seatbelts I would be wondering what else she doesn't do.

gagarin · 14/01/2009 07:49

IMO that is unreasonable.

What the CM does with her private life and time is up to her. She might hangglide/parachute/be in the Terratorial Army/join a gun club etc etc but none of that will affect her role as a CM.

If she does not drive then she will not be taking her mindees in the car.

Very bizarre reason for sacking a child minder!

KatyMac · 14/01/2009 07:53

Well I think it shows a very lax view to safety - if she doesn't bother with this very basic level of safety for her children, what else doesn't she bother with?

QueenEagle · 14/01/2009 08:00

Does she have a twin....maybe?

SaltireOShanter · 14/01/2009 08:35

Even if the mindee never goes in teh car, what other safety issues is she lax on? That would worry me.

However, she has signed a contract and would need to check the details in it for notice periods.

Jenf2306 · 14/01/2009 09:07

their should be a notice period in the contract. usually 2 to 4 weeks where either party can cancel at any time. tell her to check it

Jenf2306 · 14/01/2009 09:07

their should be a notice period in the contract. usually 2 to 4 weeks where either party can cancel at any time. tell her to check it

Original poster

cactuslady · 14/01/2009 09:10

Gagarin, I don't agree, and your examples aren't really relevant.
So you're saying, if you saw your childminder swear at or handle her own child roughly in her own time, it wouldn't make you think twice about letting her care for your child? I think you would be in a bit of a minority.

OP posts:

london11 · 14/01/2009 09:10

Check if contract has a settling in period with no fees due if notice given. If not then she could try negotiating just one weeks pay in lieu of notice maybe.

I agree with Katymac, if she doesn't think seatbelts are important for her own children what else might she consider unimportant with someone elses children?

cheezcurl · 14/01/2009 12:02

If I saw my childminder swear or handle her own child roughly it would definitely make me think twice about letting her care for my child!! And I dont think I would be in the minority?

ActiveC · 14/01/2009 13:47

if shes that lax with her own children, wonder what shes like with mindees?

Did you sign a NCMA contract? if you agreed a settling in period, you can get a full refund, unless contract states a NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT.

If she still refuses, call NCMA,with details of her insurance number, which you'll find on the contract.

Remember, OFSTED don't deal with payment disputes.

RachieB · 14/01/2009 15:48

OMG ! i am in agreement with cheezcurl

henrys7thwife · 14/01/2009 18:03

I think not using seatbelts is off. But as mindees are never in a car don't see why that should cause immediate termination of a contract. Your friend hasn't seen anything that would happen to HER child so I don't think she has any cause personally. Think she should pay notice period myself.

henrys7thwife · 14/01/2009 18:06

Also, to comment further: Saying 'what else could she be lax about' is very presumptious I think. What people do in spare time when not working should be their own private affairs and it in no way means this woman could not be a great CM. Might get flamed, but don't really mind. My opinion.

london11 · 14/01/2009 18:48

I still think the seatbelts thing has some relevance. I agree it is only presumptions but surely that is enough when it is the safety of your child at stake. It would possibly suggest to me that the childminder doesn't consider safety very important. Would she consider the straps on a highchair or pushchair unnecessary too?

And I do agree that what is done in private not working time is just that, private. However I am very aware as a childminder that anything I do or say in my own time or with my own child could affect my reputation. As I AM my business, I like to appear professional at all times.

Did the childminder reassure your friend about her standards of safety when they spoke?

MrsMattie · 14/01/2009 18:52

She is breaking the law and endangering her own childrens lives. I wouldnt leave my kids with her.

NAB3lovelychildren · 14/01/2009 18:56

When I watch other peoples children I probably pay more attention to them than mine as it is a rsponsibility but i woul dnever do something with other peoples children that I wouldn't do with mine.

(I hope that makes sense. Dh gave me wine!)

KatyMac · 14/01/2009 18:58

If she is prepared to break this law and put her own children in danger how many other 'laws' or 'rules' might she break?

nannyL · 14/01/2009 19:18

personally i would not want my child looked after by someone who doesnt even strap their own children into the car.

not only is she legally bound to do it, IMO even if it wasnt a legal requirement, who in their right mind would choose not to us seat belts?

gagarin · 14/01/2009 23:31

cactus - i think if you look carefully at what I said I didn't mention swearing or handling children roughly ?

Very strange extrapolation IMO - that people who don't use seatbelts for their own children are by definition not going to be good childminders - and in fact may swear and handle children roughly?

Seems a very strong response IMO.

Would it be the same for a childminder who was spotted riding out with her children not wearing helmets?

Original poster

cactuslady · 15/01/2009 00:17

Gagarin. I know you didn't mention it. I did.

You said what a cm did in her private life/time was her business. I don't believe that to always be the case. I gave another example of private life behaviour; for example, if someone was your cm, then you witnessed them roughly handling/ swearing at her own child in her own time/in her private life would it change your opinion about her suitability as a cm? It would definitely change mine. I said I suspected that those who would ignore the fact that the cm didn't use seatbelts, thinking it didn't matter, would be in the minority.

Most replies so far have proved this. it seems most people would not be happy using her..

OP posts:

henrys7thwife · 15/01/2009 00:57

Gagarin, I agree with you. I think it was a large jump from 'not wearing seatbelts' to 'swearing/handling roughly'. 2 completely different things.

gagarin · 15/01/2009 07:57

cactus - my examples were - I hoped - examples of risk taking behaviour.

I obviously wasn't clear enough.

What I meant was that some people may be risk takers in their own family life - but that I don't think that this would 100% mean they would take risks with other people's children.

I don't count swearing or rough handling as risk taking behaviour which is why I couldn't see the connection you suggested.

But you are right - most people agree with you - that if a person doen't use seat belts with their own children even though they will NEVER have the mindees in a car (because they can't drive ) this makes them such an unsafe childminder that they shouldn't be used.

I just disagree!

sunnygirl1412 · 15/01/2009 08:45

Isn't the issue that she is taking risks with another person's safety, gagarin - not her own? If her children were safely belted in and she were not using her seatbelt, then the comparison with her hanggliding/bungee jumping would be valid. But this is not the case, is it! You need to find a comparator that involves her allowing a child to undertake a hazardous and illegal behaviour and then show how this is OK.

This would definitely raise a question in my mind - if she does not care for the safety of her own children, how can I be sure she will care for the safety of my children.

BouncingTurtle · 15/01/2009 08:57

I wouldn't want a CM who didn't value her own kids lives. Yes she might be perfect in her care of mindees but at the end of the day she is being paid to. So therefore I would assume she is more interested in getting paid to adhere to the law/H&S than doing so because it is the right thing to do. This would make me question her moral judgment and I would not want such a person in my dc's life.

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