ADVICE PLEASE, how much should we pay our nannie?

[BBeau]

Hello, i dont know if anyone could advise on this - we have 3 children, a 2 year old and 6 month old twins. I want to go back to work 2 days a week but also want a nannie full - time (5 days a week at 8 hours a day). We have someone in mind who has already been working with us as a student so i know her and shes great. She is currently training and qualifies in May/June, she is doing her Chache diploma in childcare (i think this is the replacement NNEB). She is nearly 19 years old so has had no previous work experience with children (only family). She wouldnt be left all week with all 3 of them (my 2 year old goes to nursery a couple of sessions a week) and i will be home 3 days although i may need to pop out obviously shopping etc. To put all 3 of them into nursery for 2 full days a week is £700 a month so obviously this is out of the question, we have absolutely no family help so we are in desperate need of some sort of help at home. A nanny seems our only option. We live in Norh Essex so obvioulsy we dont earn a great wage so cant afford to pay her loads but want to keep her. Can anyone shed any light onto the minimum we could pay her. Obviously she would get her food here etc. I dont think many people have nannies in this area but then there are not many people in my situation with 3 young ones so close together. Thank you

the minimum wage for her age is £4.77 which works out at well over £800 per month
there different rules for live in nannies

I've just had a look at the current statutory minimum wage for 18-21 year olds: it's £4.77 per hour. That would work out, for your planned hours, at just over £190 a week, and per month at just over £760. So she is (if you go by national minimum wage rates) more expensive than the nursery.

Although there may (I'm not at all sure) be an exemption for domestic workers, I think you ought to be aware that, by wanting to pay her less than the nursery would cost you, she really would be on a very low wage.

However - the above is all for live-out; if you can accommodate her so she can be live-in then rates would be different.

x-post with purple, there

She sounds very young and inexperienced to have sole charge of so many little ones regularly tbh. You also have to arrange to pay tax and ni on her behalf.

great minds think alike!
try here
www.payefornannies.co.uk/parents/minimum_wage.htm

I think for a newly qualified living out nanny you are probably looking at at least £250 a week NET in the area you live in. That works out at around £370 a week gross, to which you have to add employers NI.

All in all you would be looking at around £1600 - 1700 a month for the nanny option.

I would imagine that once qualified she will want more than this - can you check on nannyjob.co.uk what the going rate around you seems to be?

The number of children you have makes no difference to a nannies salary in my view. So what you need to look at I feel is what other employers in the area are offering someone who has similar training/experience. If she were to work at a nursery, she would likely be on National Minimum Wage until she qualified, then she may earn a little more, though not all nurseries increase salary once a trainee qualifies.
Assuming she lives-out, then National Minimum Wage rules will apply - rate as per what other posters have put, though note the rate does get changed from time to time so you would need to review salary whenever the rate changes.

Looking at current listings in Essex once qualified and with a year+ of experience behind her, she could be earning £8 per hour Gross upwards as a nanny.

I think the job you have available is a great first job for a nanny - not often a new nanny gets to care for baby twins, plus being a mixture of sole-charge and shared-care she gets all-round experience.

Thank you for all your advice. Its interesting. I think the minimum wage would not be a great wage for her but it is hard as you have to pay all the extras on top which really bumps it up doesnt it. I also think she is quite young to look after all of them. She has been with us for 10 weeks but i have been here too, she is great with them and seems really confident. She has looked after just the twins before in the evening and has been fine. I wouldnt leave her all week alone with all 3 of them. Im just reluctant to lose her as we know her and have had the rare opportunity of working along side her for 10 weeks so i feel like i know her quite well and my little boy loves her. I think if she didnt come to work with us she would probably get a job in a nursery and im pretty sure that the nurseries are paying minimum wage in this area or perhaps a fraction above for her age. At least she would have some independence with us. Unfortunately she doesnt want to live in as she has a boyfriend but she doesnt live that far away.

Thank you nannynick - sorry posted after you had posted. i will definately take a look at what other people are offering. Thanks for advice.

National Minimum Wage is the Gross amount (the amount before Employee Tax/NI deductions) so the 'extras' would be Employers NI plus nanny weekly kitty for outings and the such.
I don't know if a newly qualified nanny would accept NMW, I expect they would want more... but there are several plus points working in your favour:

1. She already knows you and the children, having helped you for 10 weeks.
2. She does not need to job hunt.
3. You seem to really like her, don't want to loose her, so your relationship with her is already working well.

Her lack of experience is why the pay is low. Once she has a year's experience she will be able to get higher pay elsewhere (thus you may need to factor in a payrise in a years time, to help persuade her to stay).

Can she cope sole-charge. Only you can answer that really... from what you have seen of her so far, is she sensible enough, have enough common sense, able to cope in tricky situations, able to manage all 3 children at the same time, able to manage the twins with little assistance from you?

Talk to her about it... see what she thinks, if she sounds positive about possibly accepting a job with you, then ask about what salary she would expect.

If the two days you work match with the days your 2 year old goes to nursery, then that could help - as she would only then have the twins sole-charge. On those days activities could also be arranged - toddler group for example, so there are other adults around part of the day should she need advise.

Hi, ive just looked on that website Nannies.co.uk. I didnt even know that existed so thats a great help. There is no one offering nanny jobs in my area, the ones that are the closest seem to be quite long hours - like 7.30 - 6.30 but obviously for more money. I would only want her 9- 5 or 8 - 4. Yes my little boy would be in nursery for jus the afternoon for one of the days that i would be at work and i would arrange for him to be taken so i wouldnt expect her to do that (he will go for longer once he turns 3). Also on the other day there is a possibility that my mother in law would take him for a couple of hours may be more as she is off that day. Basically she would never be left all week with all 3 of them. On the 3 days that im at home i could easily take either the twins or my little boy out with me if i have to leave the house, its just practically impossible to take all of them shopping on my own. We do get on great - she has said she wants to work here but we havent discussed wages yet. Its strange because sometimes she does show her age but never regarding the children, i think its because she has a large family for who she is always babysitting for. It obviously can get very stressful with all 3 of them but the twins are great (at the moment), could get a little more tricky when they are walking but then my little boy will be in nursery for longer. I will talk to her and point out the pros for her staying with us. Thank you

I would guess that one of the pros for working for you is that there are no other nanny jobs being advertised in your area (and she wants to stay in area to be with boyfriend).
I am also in North Essex, and have been looking for job adverts for live-in nannies to get an idea of the going rate - and I can't find any! Not sure if this is because of the time of year or whether there are very few nanny employers in N Essex.
Good luck, I hope you find a way to make it work for both you and your potential nanny

Ahh thank you. Ive had lots of useful advice - so am going to get the ball rolling.

as she is only just about to qualify and would be a first job for her and wouldn't have had nursery experience either.

I would say £5 gross an hr would be acceptable as some would be shared care so more mothers help and some would be sole charge nanny work.

then perhaps she can earn extra money by paid babysitting for you or friends of yours.

i'm just about to qualify in june 2 too dipolma in childcare i've been a mothers help in the evenings for 15months annd get 5.50 net an hour but this is in london! i personally dont think 5 pound gross would be acceptable! but thats only me! and i also get 6 pound net for babysitting many different families! (i do also have lot of experience through youinger cousins etc and summer work in a day nursery based in the baby room!)

if this was my daughter I would prefer her to find work in a nursery where she is not going to get exploited. Yes the wages are crap but al least no one will expect her to work 40+ hours a week and then be at their beck and call for extra babysitting duties for friends etc. When is she supposed to have a social life? nanny/ mother's help/ mother's slave, all sounds a bit like you are taking advantage to me

In all honesty, form what you have typed, I think the only way you can afford a nanny is if you get a live-in. Or you reduce the hours considerably. I think you said you were going back to work 2 days a week. Why don't you just hire her for two full days?

I have a full time live-in nanny (who incidentally is 19 and is fab so I don't think age in itself is a problem here). But, I could not afford to have her full time if I wasn't working full time.

but how is she going to afford to live on 2 days pay?

Was thinking she might get another job for the other 3 days.

of course! silly me, but that would mean she couldn't be on hand for all those emergency days that seem to crop up, there won't be any flexibility with her hours

I think you probably need to reduce her hours and pay her a bit more than a fiver. She is young but that does not mean she can't do the job well. I agree that £8 is probably a bit steep for a first job post qualification.

Have you thought about advertising to see if you can get a nanny share? Maybe she could work with you three and a half days at a decent rate and someone else might want some help a few days? And don't go out for shopping - do it on-line.

Purepure, I don't think you can guarantee you won't get exploited in a nursery. I don't have enough money to pay my nannies what I would like (I am ill) but I treat them far better than they would be in a nursery. Exploitation is not just about money. I've had some temporary nannies who have been treated like shit in nurseries. And paid only the minimum wage unless fully qualified. As in £4.77 and not even £5 for that age. And hours are not flexible.

I'd agree a nannyshare may be your best bet.

do you really need her 5 days - completley understand that you want a bit of mummy free time, esp with 3 so young and close - much easier to shoe food shop with out them - so could you have her 3 days,pay her 6gross and then she could try and find another job

maybe you have a friend who would like amummy free day once a week?

i think it would be the perfect 1st job, she gets exp of baby twins and older child, i was 18 and sole charge nanny to 5yr and 4mth baby 11hrs a day 5 days a week, so think she would be capable at 19, and the hours are much shorter

Unfortunately she would not commit to a 2 or 3 day a week which is why i am trying my hardest to offer something full time in the hope she will stay but its definately an option for me. I think some people here are missing the point (purepurple), its not a case of exploiting anyone - for starters she is an adult and perfectly capable of making her own decisions, if she thought that whatever i was offering her was not enough then she does not have to except does she, secondly, all i wanted is some advice - thats what these boards are for arnt they? I have never hired anyone before let alone a nanny, so i have no idea how much they earn, i have been in the same job and only job for 12 years now so i dont even know what anyone is offering these days. What i do know is that there are a lot of people losing there jobs at the moment so whatever the case im sure she would be happy of a job offer, whether she chooses to except or not is entirely up to her and i can assure you i dont expect anyone to be my slave. Its also not a case of just going shopping - things like doctors appointments etc can get tricky when your trying to bring the whole family along! But of cause 3 days a week would also be great so definately an option! It would just mean having to find someone new unfortunately. Thanks again though for advice, i will have re-think and juggle and perhaps offer her something with a few less hours, i can only try i guess.