Childminders fees for siblings.

[Chrysanthamum]

I've got an 11 month yr old with a minder 3 days a week and think I'll have another soon. Is there normally a fee reduction for siblings or is that just wishful thinking? How do people cope on average salaries with more than 1 kid in childcare?

Not really - they don't eat less or need less minding

Two children from the same family are often more work than two children from different families

my childminder was £3.50 for 1st child and sibling reduction was £2.50 (per hour).. i think (both DC's in school now)

i offer 10% discount for the older child

I expect it will vary from CM to CM, some will, some won't.
Personally I can't see why a CM would offer a discount.
Would you expect a discount? If so, why?

I don't offer a discount for siblings, they are using up a space and a space has a fee. It is a bigger risk taking siblings, because when they leave, you have to fill more than one space.

I offer a £1 an hour discount for the child that does the least hours. I am in London and have higher rates so am able to offer a reasonable discount. I do it as I like to have 2 children from the same family, less parents, less drop offs..less hassal!

Thanks for the info. I'm just wondering I'm not even saying I expect this to be the case. My local nursery does offer a discount. I wanted to test the water before asking my childminder. I'm v aware of how hard childminders/nursery nurses work for their money but at the same time childcare in the UK compared to other countries is v expensive for average workers. I wonder how we will make ends meet when no 3 comes along

The second child is £1 less an hour. I have 2 sets of family's with 2 kids each and it does make it easier in some ways, although won't be good when they do have to leave eventually and go to school.

I charge £7.00 flat rate per hour for however many children there are (normally up to 3 children). Many childminders charge more in my area.

Chrysanthamum - Thanks for explaining why you were asking the question, it really helps to know how parents think, when they are looking for childcare. Your local nursery does give a discount (expect you established that from some kind of a price list, brochure) and thus it is therefore natural for you to enquire if this would be the case for other forms of childcare.
As you can see from the replies you have got so far, each childcare provider decides for themselves how they want to charge for their service... some will give a sibling discount, others won't.
Once No3 comes along, you may find that in-home childcare (such as a nanny) may cost less (as it is usually a per-family fee, not per-child)... but of course each type of care has it's pro's and cons.

vixma - I'm surprised that a childminder is able to offer a flat rate fee, regardless of the number of children. That fee structure is more like a nannies, in that it is a per-family fee, rather than per-child.
If you are a childminder with 3 under 5's places to fill, if you charged £7 per hour and a family had 3 children under 5, then you only have income of £7 per hour. Whereas if it were 3 separate families, income would be £21 per hour... quite a difference. However, everyone can charge what they like, so if it works for you, fair enough.

i dont see why cm should reduce thair fee, the sibling is still using a place

My CM's have always offered a discount.As does the nursery I used.IMO it really helps,otherwise it becomes too expensive to have two with the CM.I had to give up day time work because of this last year,until DD1 went to school.

I was told that the NCMA(? is that correct?)have advised that Cm's don't give discounts as nothing is "discounted" in their outgoings ect. for 2 children.

However it is nice to find a CM who is sympathetic to the needs of their parents,and understand the very fine balance with most parents between affording childcare and working,or giving up and staying at home.

I don't envy what a CM has to do,its a hard job,but it is also a well-paid job,with few outgoings that you can do in the comfort of your own home,and be a SAHM if you want to your own DC's.IME some CM's I have met just get "greedy" and have some very hard and odd rules.

Few out goings!!!! More than two thirds of my earnings from my 'well paid job' goes on outgoings!

well paid?
comfort of your own home?
a CM is a SAHM?

Sawyer64 have you any idea of the work involved in being a CM above and beyond actually looking after the children!!!! I am a parent not a CM, your post makes you come across as ignorant to what a CM actually does. Gone are the old days when they could feed them whatever, stick them in front of the TV and get on with their housework!

Sawyer64, can I suggest you actually ask a local cm what they do in their 'well-paid' jobs! Infact, spend a day with one of them........
I'm not well-paid, I have lots of expenses (including heating my home - or should I just ask parents to supply an extra jumper and thermal underwear!).I certainly don't class myself as a SAHM - infact my own child probably gets less attention when mindees are here than they do! CMs are not greedy - we work bloody hard for around £3.50ph - who else would work for that? Do you give up weekends and evenings ('family' time) to do the training that we are told we have to do? Spend endless hours doing paperwork and planning -unpaid?
We are not 'glorified babysitters'working for 'pocket money'- we are childcare professionals, working to the same legislation and standards as nurseries and reception classes.
I don't offer reductions because I provide the same high quality of childcare for all the children in my setting. As someone once said to me 'Quality childcare is not expensive - it's invaluable!'

Grr.

I pity your CM sawyer64 - she sounds lovely offering sibling discount and that is how you think of her.

I work as a CM, 10 hour days 5 days a week, I earn less than minimum wage before expenses which include food;activities and outings; art adn craft supplies; lovely toys and games; dressing up rail; courses and conference, lighting-heating, repairs to my home, etc.

Oh yes and my DS barely gets a look in whilst I am working, or out of hours when I doing unpaid paperwork, training and planning.

Don't get me wrong - I love working with the families in my area and offering a personal service, but it is no 'easy option', it is not well paid, and I am a WAHM mum (with no childcare or time off from my own DS).

OP:
In answer to the OP, I do not do sibling discounts as CM fees in my area are ridiculously low anyway. I used to provide childcare for two siblings, would be beginning work at 6am, finishing at 8:30pm, and charged £4.50ph for it.

These siblings became an extended part of my family, and pop in and out now (youngest sibling left in july) to see us of their own accord. I am incredibly fond of them and their mum, but couldn't possibly have given sibling discount.

Will you be entitled to any childcare vouchers or tax credit help?

WAHM - like that one SammyK

How about WAHMGPVL - (getting paid very little!!).

To Chrysanthemum - sorry if I ranted a bit. I actually became a cm because I couldn't afford to go to work and pay one myself, but it is a very hard job, which is why many cms don't do discounts. I would look on the Childcarelink webbie - just put yr p/code in and you can have a look and see what cms are charging (and any discounts). Have a word with your current cm too to sound her out.

Good luck

As I said I don't envy a CM's job,and I did say its a hard job.

I also said some CM I have come across are greedy IMO. I have "used the services" of a CM for 12 years,and have met some awful ones.I'm sorry if I have offended you here,but I'm sure the ones I was referring too would'nt go near a site like this anyway.

I have had some fabulous CM's and am very grateful for all the "good" ones out there.

But like in my profession(Nursing) there are also alot of "bad apples" surely you can agree with that?

I only meant that "in effect" you are a SAHM, as through your line of work it enables you to be at home with your LO's
I apologise I was inaccurate and should have said WAHM.

I also just meant that for a "Business" there are relatively little outgoings,I do appreciate you have Bills,and good food to provide,and outings etc.etc. and as a CM Single Parent,it must be expensive,But my lovely CM and I do appreciate her,gets £3.50/£4.00 an hour for each Child,and has sometimes 4-5 children when I drop my LO off,so for an average day thats £150 a day.Surely you can't consider that "Low-Paid"????

Maybe you deserve to be paid twice as much,thats not in dispute.

As for doing courses and paperwork etc.I do have to do that in my Job too,not fair but mandatory I guess.

Some CM I have met do stick them in front of a TV,don't do written records,or outings,and feed them junk food,and for all this they charge twice the normal rate,and expect me to pay for their 2 weeks holiday,when I then have to pay for alternative childcare as well, and my 2 weeks!

As previously said I do appreciate my CM and realise she is definitely a "good apple".

Sawyer64, thanks for all you've said. for my part, i accept what you say except that i think we can agree to disagree on the well paid aspect!

i have also met some childminders that i would not send a rat to. you are right: you get good and bad in every occupation.

Thanks NumberFour,I'd hate to offend anyone.

As has been said,I don't really know what your outgoings are etc. and how much they "eat" into your earnings.

I think I get a little "Blinkered"....Like in my job,if I do Agency work and the rate of pay is double my "normal" pay,I'm impressed,but once I take out the CM Fees,my petrol and expenses,doesn't look so good afterall

agree sawyer, there are good and bad cm's, just as there are good and bad nannies

Besides the obvious expenses like heating, mortgage, fresh food, gas etc. there are insurances, memberships, toy replacement, training days (loss of income and you pay for the training...), conferences (been to three this year alone), lack of holiday/sick leave in most CMs cases etc. Besides the huge amount of paperwork, ink, photographs, stationery... and this paperwork is not in my usual CM hours, but in my own unpaid time.

In fact, I have spent so much on my business this year I won't pay a penny in tax. That says it all I think.

I don't know any cms that earn '£150 a day'- I don't earn that in a week at the moment. I won't even clear the tax allowance before expenses!!

Chrystathamum: sorry for the hijack! I think the short answer to your original question is that some CM's do offer sibling discount, others don't. You just have to ask. And of course you are at liberty to negotiate your contract just as much as the CM is.

Good luck. Again, sorry for getting side tracked.