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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM: Who would do this? give a family the boot in favour of another bringing in more hours?

23 replies

DJGemini · 19/12/2008 18:52

As a favour to a friend, I have offered to find out if this is common practice.
I myself, as a CM would NOT do this. I'm not sure, but it seems bad practice to me...
Their DC attends a CM 10 hours each week, over 2 days. 2 hours before school and 3 hours after.
Out of the blue - been told, "can't so Thurs mornings now, as accepting a baby 4 full days a week"
What ever happened to first come first served? They have 2 weeks (over Xmas!) to find alternative care for the Thurs morning,

I know we are running a business, but if I don't have the space I say no, or I have a close relationship with the familes, to know whether they could swap days, find other care, you know, be flexible to fit everyone in. But I would never tell some one to go, for the sake of better offer.
What would you do?

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pinkdelight · 19/12/2008 19:08

I really hope my CM would never do this, and very much doubt she'd even dream of it. But can't this CM keep both? If your friend's DC goes is of school age, I don't see why a baby would effect the numbers to the extent that they can't both be there. Unless the CM just can't cope with a baby as well?

popperdoodles · 19/12/2008 19:17

I agree it doesn't make much sense as a baby would come under her under 5s ratio.

underpaidandoverworked · 19/12/2008 19:21

If the child attends school, it shouldn't affect the cms under 5 ratio anyway, so it seems a bit cheeky. If I was your friend I would find another cm for the full 3 days, not just the Thurs. As a cm, I've never done this to a parent, but I am currently being messed around by a parent on maternity leave re hours, when she going back etc - but can I please keep 2 places open until god knows when??? Hmmm, how to explain that to my bank!!!

nannynick · 19/12/2008 19:28

Maybe it's a space in the car thing.
I could see that to the CM concerned, filling 4 full days (40 hours a week?), is preferable to 10 hours a week.
With financial things being how they are at present, I can see that the CM would want to earn more money. Ditching a child isn't nice, but as long as they gave the appropriate notice as per the contract, then it's something they can do.

Would I do a similar thing... well Yes actually, have to say I would - as being a nanny I have left a family to work for another family due to higher pay, which I think is similar situation.

TheOtherMaryPoppinsJingles · 19/12/2008 19:42

Yes I would and have done so too, but within proper notice periods of course.

At the end of the day as much as I love my children to bits, I can't live on cuddles ( wish you could, I'd be a millionairess!!) I am running a business and due to limitations on numbers, there is only so much you can earn so have to make sure you maximise your income.

As Nannynick points out, no different to an employed person searching for a better paid/better hours/better perks position.

Original poster

DJGemini · 19/12/2008 19:46

Thanks everyone.
I think that My friend is going to look elsewhere, but worried at how long that will take etc..

They have been given 2 weeks notice, which seems short, asked if the contract says 2 weeks notice can be given, I always give and expect 4 weeks.
Yes from an earning point of view I would prefer more hours. But If I didnt have space I would, as I have done, had to say sorry no vacancies. I have 2 different families on my roll, who eachdo 1 day, another is just a couple of after schools. I wouldn't dream of telling them that I am taking on a full time in favour of part time.
I don't know about the actual ratios etc, as not been told. I can only assume the CM is full on a thurs a.m
I feel it isn't nice to do this to the family, who spent a long time searching back in Sept.

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MerryChatkins · 19/12/2008 19:49

I know of cms who have done this - one of my mindees came to me from someone who didn't want her erratic hours anymore, as she took on a baby with set hours, and more of them. From a financial point of view I can understand it, especially if someone is realy struggling, every extra penny counts. But in this business the child is meant to be top priority no matter what, and I know I could never do it. There is usually a way to mix things up and fit people in!

HarrietTheSpy · 19/12/2008 20:40

In the contact I signed with our very first nursery it stated that full time places would be given priority to part time. The idea was that this would give them the right to do just what that CM is doing, with the proper notice period. Did it happen? Not when I was there, but they covered themselves.

babylovessanta · 19/12/2008 21:34

I don't actually think that there is anything wrong with this. Cminding is a business and 4 days a week will be a lot more money than 10 hours. If a person left their job because they were offered a job with more hours = money then no one would bat an eyelid!

chloemegjess · 19/12/2008 22:48

It is hard as although it is not nice the CM might really need the money. i have a mindee 9 hours a week and although she wouldn't effect me having a full timer, I would be gutted if she did.

inbetweeny · 19/12/2008 23:19

I agree with the majority, I would do this although it's not a nice thing to have to do but some of us are doing a job we love while also needing the money to pay the bills. Any one of our parents would not hesitate to give us notice if they were moving away to a job with better prospects no matter how much they love us. That sadly is the reality. Merrychatkins there is no way to 'mix things up and fit people in' if other parents are unable to be flexible with days/hours in their own jobs. While with most of us the child is top priority while they are in our care you have to be realistic sometimes and keeping a roof over our head (and the children's) is important. I agree we are running a business as well as doing a job we love.

Tinker · 19/12/2008 23:38

My old cm did do this for me. She had one one day a week only and I wanted 5 days full-time, so she "sacked" the first mum (who I knew!)

maggi · 20/12/2008 00:47

As a cm with part timers blocking days which stop me taking full timers I have considered its pros and cons. I know I have a business and my hubby complains that I should maximise my income but I cant drop one child for another. I dont feel it is ethical in the type of business we are in. How can we put the needs of the child second. How can we put them through the stress of saying goodbye and getting used to another carer. Also it goes against our comitment to equal opportunities for everyone if we only accept fulltimers.

As for the money my business already has a turnover of twice what I was being paid to be a manger in a large DIY shop. Is it the credit crunch or an excuse to be greedy.

Original poster

DJGemini · 20/12/2008 08:38

I agree about the income/ business issues.. however I believe CM is different to say changing employer for better wages etc..yes no one would bat an eye lid, another employer will fill their shoes etc. But ware talking about the families who will be disrupted by their childcare ending.. because there is an element of commitment and the parents rely so much on finding someone to look after their children.
It is a very emotive subject as all parents i'm sure will agreee, once it becomes just about money and business, it takes away from the caring side of things. Yes I agree we need to be realistic, and pay the bills.. but I couldnt live with my concious if I did that to a family. Maybe I'm too nice/kind/a mug ?? Another enquiry will come along that hopefully fits around current mindees and it all works out in the end.
If I gave notice to all my part timers, took on a full timer, that full timer could leave me and I would be stuffed!
What goes around comes around...
It's fair to say that there are so many diferent ways of practice and thats what makes our profession so unique.
Thank you all for our input.

OP posts:

SleighGirl · 20/12/2008 08:44

Any chance it could be in part an excuse, their son perhaps isn't a good fit in the CM's brood of mindees & dc?

HappyMummyOfOne · 20/12/2008 10:19

I really feel for your friend and hope she finds a better childminder with more ethical policies.

I dont suppose she has an option of a before/after school club, places are usually guaranteed there (as long as they have a space.

aGalChangedHerName · 20/12/2008 10:26

I have done this and i don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I CM to earn a living. It would be great if i had enough money not to worry about how the bills are getting paid etc. If a parent changes job for more money/gets a promotion everyone says how great it is.

Next time i'm skint and offered more hours by another family i'll turn it down and not pay my bills then shall i?

HarrietTheSpy · 20/12/2008 12:23

I don't think the concept is unethical as such as long as the appropriate notice period is given.

But I don't think parents are thinking this is a liekly outcome when they engage a cm. I think they are assuming it's first come first served and I agree the whole relationship/emotional side of things kicks in. Which is understandable in one way.

I think if prioritising places for children with the most hours, rather than a first come first served sort of arrangement is part it should be explained in the contract as part of a CMS terms and conditions, as our nursery did with us. This is fair. Some CMs might be reluctant to do this, as it could put people off when they need mindees. But I don't think it's QUITE fair to have it both ways.

TheOtherMaryPoppinsJingles · 20/12/2008 12:38

DJGemini - if only the parents would think about this "commitment" when they decide to suddenly up off and leave without notice.

Original poster

DJGemini · 20/12/2008 16:31

I agree Harriet,
Also Afree with MaryPoppins...
tricky isnt it

OP posts:

KatyMac · 20/12/2008 16:51

I have been fortunate that my jigsaw of part-time children normally works out very well

But if it's just for a few hours she might get a variation

HarrietTheSpy · 20/12/2008 18:54

The other problem with cms and nurseries dumping you is the possible lack of availability of alternative care. if you're in the full time nanny market, in most cases (unless you live I guess in a rural location or have other special circumsntces etc etc) it's a pain when your nanny quits but I would think MORE possible to find someone else at short notice than a nearby CM or a nursery with all the time you might need. Difficult one. But then again, I don't like being tied into long notice periods myself (same nursery I mentioned above 3mo notice period), so there would be a downside to agreeing that with any carer too.

Original poster

DJGemini · 22/12/2008 08:23

The reason for the notice, is car seat space.
And of course the attraction of more income. Which I understand, however I work on a first come first served basis.

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