I need a little advise from you wonderful lot please........

[FruitynNutty]

Baby mindee (8 months) came in this morning with a stinking poo (fair enough, I've changed enough nappies for them not to phase me too much).
However, this time it was a nappy which very obviously hadn't been changed at all this morning. He still had his night time nappy on. To top it off, his clothes were drenched and filthy. He had obviously been wearing the same clothes since Monday . On Monday he got pasta sauce all over them, Tuesday he came in the same clothes (which, imo, is bad enough) and today he was still wearing the same clothes! I get the feeling he's been sleeping in them too .
It was disgusting, it really was. He had no change of clothes so I had to climb into the loft to find some of DS's old baby clothes to put him into. I'm very tempted to give him a bath too , he needs one, his ears are especially filthy.
I know I should say something to the Mum but I don't know how to go about it.
Trouble is, his mum is really sweet and is always so grateful that I have him. She's also my next door neighbour.

This has happened before btw. Except his clothes weren't so filthy. I think he regularly sleeps in his clothes. Occasionally he comes to me in his PJ's which have no problem with as he gets here so early 7:30am. But this is probably only once a week. I think the rest of the week he wears the same clothes all the time with no bath in between

Please tell me if you think I'm being a bit anal here.
I just think children should start the day fresh and clean and have a bath at least every other day. Especially if they are still in nappies.

What I'm asking is, do I talk to his mum about it? How do I say something without offending?
She is very busy. She's a teaching assistant and also has a 7 yr old DS who had Aspergers and ADHD so I really feel for her. I think she sees me as a really good friend - although I'd rather keep a certain distance. Even though she only lives next door, we have only really known each other since I started CMing her baby a couple of months ago.

WWYD?

I would do nothing as it sounds like he is loved and well cared for and apart from the clothes it doesn't sound 'neglectful'. However, I would take the opportunity to bath him and dress him in clean clothes - and it will also be lovely for him.

If you really have no other concerns apart from this I would just care for him in the way you do it - ie.clean

Well your personal preferences re the amount of baths a child gets aren't really relevant (DS often only bathed once a week), but wearing dirty clothes and sleeping in them too is another issue entirely. Can you ask the mum to provide a spare set of clothes and ask her for a new set every time you need to put the little boy into the spare set (whether because he has wet through his clothes at your house or has arrived dirty in the first place - you don't need to say why).

I find it a bit odd that someone would not send a child of this age with a spare set of clothes anyway. I still would for DS and he is 2 - accidents happen. It sounds like she either has very low hygiene standards or is struggling.

It takes 5 mins to bath a baby, 2 mins to get them dressed, 1 min to change a nappy. Surely his mum can find 8 mins?

We have a duty of care to the children in our care so I would have to talk to her about it, I would maybe offer to bath him if she gave written permission and I had the time to fit it in without compromising the care of the other children. Not sure what the rules are on bathing don't think we're supposed to but then what about the cm's who do overnight care or when the child has been sick or had an accident? I think if we're allowed to nappy change then a bath isn't dis-similar.

The first thing I would do is ask mum for a couple of changes of clothes to keep at yours, I do this with all my mindees and they regularly get used.

If baby is otherwise well cared for I wouldn't worry too much.

I would bath him if you have the time to, say it was because of his stonking nappy I this case i' suyre the mum won't mind she sounds run ragged. Do you think she is depressed?

How often do you have the baby? Could you offer to dress him, and put him in PJs at end of day if this is possible for you?

Also I know it's not nice to think about but log these little things just in case mum goes downhill, you can then recall what happened when. Even though it is only a minor concern now, if things do become worse you then have it recorded. to think of but we have to cover our backs.

I agree about bathing routine BTW, ds gets bathed once a week as has excema, but he is still clean!

Don't compare to your standards, but what standards are needed in terms of the baby being healthy and happy. So a little dirt in his ears can be ignored, but a nappy that has been on since the night before will be uncomfortable andmay cause nappy rash which may get infected of not cleaned thoroughly and regularly.

Bathing once a week or every day depends on the individual family and doesn't indicate a big problem.
Dd is bathed probably twice a week. Will have to be more soon as she is moving onto puberty (joy of joys!).

Sounds like baby isn't getting top and tails daily though unless the minder does it?
That's not good really.

I do think the offer to dress him and do pjs is a good way of addressing the situation discreetly, but like another poster has said, i would keep a note of it as it does sound as though mum is not doing so well right now.
Lets face it, how many mums hand over their baby in filthy urine soaked clothes straight from the cot?

You are not being remotely anal.

I would give him a bath (a really thorough one), pop him in some fresh clothes and haave a chat with her. Could you offer to bathe/change the baby every day in return for a small extra charge? I think that would put across your point that babies do need a bath and clean clothes every day.

but they don't need it. It's a baby, not a construction worker

The mother in the OP needs to be told that her child needs bathing and changing more frequently. The OP offering to do this gets the point across.

Frankly, I think daily bathing depends on the family's standards and the nature of the child and the context in which they live (rural fresh air and urban pollution create very different needs) so it is hard to pronounce on this on a thread.

Thanks guys. Maybe I'm a little anal about bathing every other night
I think the ear thing is just me. They are always filthy but I have a thing about ear dirt I can cope with baby vomit, poo snot, you name it but ear wax/dirt makes me feel a little green! I even had to get DP to clean Ds's ears for me

I know he is very well cared for and loved so I'm not concerned about neglect at all.
Just not too keen on him being in such a state first thing in the morning.
I know I should have asked for a spare set of clothes, that's my fault. I will ask her this evening when she picks up
Also there weren't enough nappies in the bag today. There were only 2 and we've got through them already this morning! She normally replenishes them for me. Luckily I have a couple of spares lying around.

Bathing wouldn't be a problem as on a Wednesday I only have him to look after - although I think this is way above the duty of a CM!

Thank you so much for your comments. I think I might just say he had soaked through all his clothes this morning which is why he's in DS's clothes and would she mind providing a spare set.
She's really very nice (and doesn't seem depressed) usually very happy, always smiling.
I just don't like to appear like I'm offending someone's level of hygiene - I actually thought mine was bad as I bath DS every other night and most people I know bath their children every single night (which I think is a little obsessive!)

Thanks again everyone!

Only two nappies It sounds like she is very disorganised at the very least. How would it work if you provided her with a formal list of what he needs to arrive with every day/week? So you stipulate the number of nappies, changes of clothes, bottles, dummies or whatever. That way it can be non judgemental.

Apart from anything else it is just really grim to have to handle a sodden, smelly baby.

Sounds as though this mum has a lot on her plate - maybe short of cash too, for baby clothes?
I used to mind a baby whose mum worked very long hours and struggled to keep up with housework and routine cleaning - I asked if it would help if I bathed and fed the baby and had her ready for pick up so that when mum took her home, all she had to do was play with her and read a story, before putting the baby to bed. Mum provided some spare clothes and I washed them myself. This worked well for two years until mum could afford to work shorter hours and began to manage better. Mum was very grateful for the support.
I would be very concerned if the baby showed obvious signs of neglect (became sore, wasn't fed, or was lethargic etc, but just a bit of wholesome muck doesn't do much harm)
Refer to your safeguarding training - you should record concerns, if there is a pattern emerging you should seek professional help.

I suppose I could do the bath thing and just put him in with DS. Perhaps I'll get started on a little list for her now while baby is still snoozing

My HV told me that babies don't really get dirty and so only needed a proper bath once a week top and tailing was fine, unless I dropped her in mud or something. Agree, this bit is not really the point.

I really struggled with dd at that age, due to illness (undiagnosed at the time). I would have been absolutely delighted if someone had offered to wash her, change her clothes/nappy for me. Admittedly I would have been mortified too, so you will need to be careful how you broach it, but I really do think it's your best bet.

Today, he's come in a stonking nappy, needs a bath and change of clothes, so it's an ideal opportunity to talk to her - she must know what state he was in, and be half expecting (hoping?) you to bring it up.

I'm not a CM but once upon a time I used to be a nursery assistant in a very exclusive upper class nursery in a posh part of London.

Some of the kids were frankly pretty grubby and unkempt, and I used to clean them up regularly. I usually had a bit of a word with the parents and it was usually because a) the children were temporarily resistant to their parents doing it for some reason (eg hairbrushing fears), or b) the parents were knackered, overworked or stressed.

I reckoned I was in loco parentis and should therefore apply the same standards as for my own child. I had a bit of extra leeway because we took them swimming twice a week so were rolling up our sleeves to help with personal care anyway.

I think this hygiene push helped reduce nit infestations and so on, and helped the children learn eventually how to do it for themselves.

I have a lil one till 7pm tonight and will give her a bath no problem after tea, and then pop her into her pjs, ready for collection. Much eaier for mum when she fetches her and lil one will need to sleep asap when home.

I clean ears if need be... whilst the kids are in my care they are kept as clean as possible. I work hand in hand with mum and dad and they appreciate the care I give. We are in it together.

Your neighbour should always give you spare clothes, that's a basic necessity in my view. I have this for all my kids.

This sounds to me as though it is heading towards neglect to be honest. She does not sound on top of things at all.

I would have a chat with Mum, outline your concerns and see how she responds. Document everything properly and keep a close eye on things.

i aggree with shinypinkshoes

As ShinyPinkShoes says - yes, document everything you do/the state the child is in when he arrives etc. Cover yourself in a professional capacity.

we all have diffrent views in bathing children, i think every night ( if no dry skin/excema etc) BUT should be in clean clothes daily, and maybe weraing the next day if clean, but to bring child in dirty clothes from day before and a wet nanny

you have to mention it

even if something like, if you are running out of time and easier to bring in pj's, pack in clean clothes and i can chnage him when he gets here

also mention that he needs spare nappies and you dont have any his size

is there a dad about?

have you done any safeguarding children training? if not do, its very helpful and covers situations like this x

I don't for a moment think he is being neglected as he's always so happy and a very easy baby. I can see how much he loves his family and how much they love him. I'm sure it's just (as somebody mentioned above) that people have different ideas on and levels of hygiene. I've been in their house a few times and it's always clean (messy but clean).
Just wondered how to approach the situation I had on my hands this morning as I hate to offend.
Father is around but he has two jobs so I'm not sure they see a lot of him tbh
I'm sure I've covered "safeguarding children" on one of the many courses the council sends us on.
I'm not planning on doing any more courses for the time being as I'm 5 months pregnant and struggle to absorb information at the best of times .

I'll have a chat to mum later over a cup of coffee

From a child protection & safeguarding angle alarm wells would be starting to ring.

Much as none of us want to offend a parent, we also have a legal duty and obligation to keep children safe from harm AND neglect.

I can see why you are a bit concerned.

As Sammy said, log your concerns, ask for a change or two of clothes to be held at yours, keep an eye in the situation, support the family if you can.

You could think about consulting another professional in RL - another CM, your CDO, perhaps a network CM - no need to compromise confidentiality at this stage.

HTH