Difficult nanny reference situation... what would you do?

[Gidleigh]

Some time ago, I gave notice to my nanny as there was a chance that I may be staying home full time. Given she had 4 weeks to work out her notice, I gave her a written reference letter so that she may find a new job. The reference letter was an honest positive despite her being off sick on a number of ocaasions. I felt at the time that I shouldn't mention this point as my view of many sicks days may not be someone else's view. In any event, once I gave her the notice although she was pleasant about the whole situation, she subsequently called in sick for the rest of the notice period.

Since she left I have gotten several calls (over 20) from agencies and families wanting toe verify the reference and in the past I have answered all the questions they have asked me honestly. Although no one mentioned time off sick so I didn't volunteer despite how she ultimately left my emloyment in the end.

One of the families who rang me for a reference called me back to tell me that she had offered her the nanny job but did not show up on the first day. The agency called this lady later in the day to say her boyfriend called to say she couldn't take the job. Obviously, the family and agency are all upset about this and the family rang me to jusst tell me what had occurred.

So last week, I get a letter from a nursery school wanting a their written reference form filled out because my old nannny had applied for a job there. At this point given the history (she has left me over a year ago and the multiple references already provided) I feel I have done enough and I feel I don't want to get involved giving references where my original concerns about her (absence etc) would actually be an issue. Do you think there is a legal obligation for me to respond and lastly what are your opinions.

You are not obliged to give someone a reference but your decision not to will speak volumes.

There isn't a legal obligation for you to provide a reference, and in fact by refusing to provide a reference you may be giving a huge hint to future potential employers.

If you do provide a reference it has to be accurate and not misleading. Making a comment of how often the employee has been sick is factual. You don't have to give an opion as to whether it is too much. Simply a statement along the lines of "In the last year of her employment X was off work sick on Y days."

Thanks Wallaroo. I was trying to be fair when she left me originally but equally as a mu I wouldnt want to have someone who has not been respectful

Yes, Ladymuck I agree. That is why I totally refrained from commenting on the letter originally. When I looked at the latest form it was quite prescribed in the questions. For instance, they wanted to exact days and on how many instances. I started to fill it out but decided against it as 35 days in 5 instances in a period of 8 months seemed a lost cause.

If it were me I'd be very, very unhappy about a nanny calling in sick for an entire 4 week notice period. I would therefore not have given any further references and I would have mentioned the sick leave on the phone.

Sorry, but there are plenty of experienced reliable nannies out there who don't take the piss! Why further the career of one that is obviously making a habit of it..

I know talic. This is why I wanted to stop now. Earlier I wanted to be fair but it seems how she was with me was not just a one off...

Not sure what the problem is with giving her a reference - you said your original one was honestly positive, so it's just a case of absence information.

I'm afraid Wallaroo and LadyMuck are wrong. Employers aren't normally legally obliged to provide a reference, but in the case of something like childcare, where references are much more significant and someone will not be able to get a job without one, you do have an obligation and you would be making yourself legally vulnerable if you refuse.

If she only left employment a year ago that's very recent in her work history so she will need a reference from you to get a job.

Well in that case I would give an honest appraisal - and I would mention the not so good bits too.

Really flowerybeanbag? Would this mean that I would need to fill in the latest request received? If I get calls, what could I say? The original letter was given to her prior to her taking the eentirety of the notice period and the most recent job situation. The callers I have gotten in the past surprising did not ask me about her sickness etc. My concern is that if I simply answer their questions and maintain opinions to myself, would I not be conveying a false impression of her?

"I'm afraid Wallaroo and LadyMuck are wrong. Employers aren't normally legally obliged to provide a reference, but in the case of something like childcare, where references are much more significant and someone will not be able to get a job without one, you do have an obligation and you would be making yourself legally vulnerable if you refuse."

As a law student (not saying I know everything about employment law at this point, but 3 years in I have a fair idea) - I disagree. You are within your rights to say you prefer not to give a reference, IMO.

My preference is to say "no comment" but don't want to leave myself exposed. Any legal people with any thoughts on this matter please let me know..., thanks

What is the problem with answering the question about sick leave honestly? Stick to the facts and they will speak for themselves. The new (potential) employers are askign for references precisely to uncover this kind of information!

I also found this easy to understand guide at:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/StartingANewJob/DG_10026703

It recommends:
If you want to leave your job you'll probably want a reference. It's good practice for your employer to give one, but they don't have to if your contract doesn't say they have to, except in some regulated industries like financial services.

.....To my mind, childcare doesn't fall into the same category of 'regulated' as financial services.

I don't feel it would be reasonable to provide a positive reference to somebody who, even after your employment relationship ceased conducted themselves in a less than professional manner.

The problem is that most don't ask these vital questions.. not even the agencies. So in the past I answered their questions but since the most recent incident I am reluctant. I would rather not volunteer the information as I do feel awkard in doing so but if no one asks (and this has been the case with the previous callers) then I may inadvertantly be giving a misleading impression. Therefore, my preference is just so say "no comment".

Thanks Lucy87 for the link

I think you can just confirm dates of employment and leave it at that

You should answer the questions you are asked. You can answer questions about her performance positively, if asked about her reliability and/or absence you can anser honestly about her sick days and no working her notice period.

Answer negatively only where it is factual, and/or can be backed up by facts. So give actual number of days absent rather than your opinion about whether that was reasonable.

What happened at a job after she left your employment is not your concern, so leave that alone.

Lucy Directgov is a basic level source for employees, it's not a site providing detailed legal advice. Gidleigh are you happy to take my word for it that I know what I'm talking about, or, given Lucy's interjection, would you like me to find you a link to prove it?

answer

And this also:

There is no legal obligation to provide a reference at all (unless this omission derogates from the employer?s usual practice for other employees and amounts to discrimination or victimisation for asserting legal rights). But where a reference is given it must be true, fair and accurate.

Taken from:
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article1472127.ece

So it seems you are very much within your rights to say nothing at all!

flowery - I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you, I can't see your answer link - I am interested to see it as all the searching I am doing and my basic understanding suggests otherwise?

But I have been wrong ONCE or TWICE before, can you believe it!?

I don't umnderstand your problem. She behaved badly with regard sick time. The form asks you to tell them about sick time. You are not asked for an opinion just facts. I am sure you will have an opportunity (covering letter for eg)to put across any positives.

I have a feeling that you do need to do references for nannies etc. In truth I think it would be bad form not to - this person is working with children and references are importnat!

I am Australian also so my understanding stems from what's what here - I'm not familiar with UK legal databases as a result.. but Directgov, although simple, seems clear to me?

Flowerybeanbag, whilst I bow to your professional knowledge in this area, I'm curious as to how such a legal obligation could be enforced? I'm a former nanny employer myself, so am curious to know what penalties I would suffer in the event I didn't continue to provide copious references after the event?

But also, why should OP be obliged to go to the time and trouble of providing a reference for someone who left her employment over a year ago, when once in that employment, the nanny did not treat her with a similar courtesy?

She's said she has already dealt with 20 reference requests and answered them positively? How much more can she be expected to do!?

Precicely Ladymuck. The courts simply have better things to do as long as there is no slander/victimisation occurring!