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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

What are your rules re: breakages, hours and sick pay for aps?

11 replies

Simply · 30/11/2008 12:16

I need to write things down and have a chat with my ap. I'd like some help from other MNers so that I'm sure that I'm being entirely reasonable, please!

Breakages: On the whole, only relatively inexpensive things have been damaged and broken so far. I get the distinct impression that if I've agreed something with her that'll means that she will have to pay something if she damages or breaks more things then she'll take more care. What should I say? Should I have tiered limits i.e. if under £10 in value she should pay; if over £10 then she should pay half; if we have to claim on the insurance then she pays the excess or something? Genuine accidents I don't mind at all but it's almost always carelessness or being unwilling to follow the item's or my instructions.

Hours: She rarely does her full hours and doesn't intend to. One of her first questions was how much our first ap got paid and for how many hours and did she really have to do her full hours each week, which I found odd. I explained to her that with her I had the additional cost of the agency which she hadn't realised but it didn't change her thinking. I said that if everything was done (ironing, childcare, etc) then no, she didn't have to do every single hour but it tends to be about 3 to 5 hours less than the 25 most weeks. Plus we rarely ask her to do any evening child minding. Maybe an hour once a week and my children are teenagers anyway so she just has to be in the house with them, not actually caring for them as such. She even asked the first time if she had to do anything with them whilst I was out or if it was ok for her to read, Skype etc which I found odd also. I do want her to have a social life, honestly I do, but between needing 12 hours or so sleep/rest a night (and I can't have the w/m or t/d or landing light on as it disturbs her sleep!) and her social life, I think she finds it hard to fit in work time. She also doesn't make up time lost when she has said she will. Unless I check back on her record of hours and tell her, she won't as I think she either forgets or she hopes I will have. I realise that I must do that in future though I feel very uncomfortable about it. I think I need to re-state how many hours she is expected to do and that days off mid week need to be made up. I'd rather agree to 23 each week and pay the full rate than forever feel short changed.

Sick pay: She really wants to receive her full pocket money even though she takes to her bed with a mere cold and does then much less than her full hours. She says she'll make up the hours in the following weeks but she doesn't. How can I stop this happening in future? I wouldn't mind if she was ill but I think it's a bit much for just a cold (and this confirmed by a gp) and she has other minor problems from time to time which affect her ability to do her hours too, like a sore foot or knee (from the sport she plays). I think I'd like to tell her that the next time, I'll only pay her pro rata for the hours she has done and then for any hours she makes up as and when she does them as she is otherwise swinging the lead at my expense.

I'm sorry this is so long. Any advise is welcomed. I want to speak to her tomorrow if possible. TIA. Oh and I should mention that she seems very happy here and will be here for another 3 months but 3 weeks of that is (unpaid) Christmas holiday. I know I don't have long to go but I don't want to feel taken advantage of for the next 3 months and I need to give her the chance to improve and then get a good reference when she leaves. She can change when she is told repeatedly that she has to i.e. she kept swearing and I kept reminding her that we don't say 4 letter swear words in my house and she was expected not to either. It took a long time to sink in but it has now. Thanks again for reading.

OP posts:
squiffy · 30/11/2008 13:51

Well, First reaction is get rid. I wouldn't give a reference for someone like this. She swears, she takes sickies, she doesn't want to do her hours, she whinges about lights and suchlike, she's careless and she doesn't folow instructions? Why on earth don't you kick her out?

Anyway, specific answers:-

cut her pay when she is sick. You will find her health improves.

Give her tasks to do, not hours to work. Then you wont care if she finishes early

Tell her breakages need ot be paid back via extra hours (you cannot expect her to cough up money), and if those extra hours cut into her social life, tough.

Millarkie · 30/11/2008 14:18

Oh Heck - I would not put up with her attitude and would get rid! but maybe I've been spoilt by having a lovely first AP.
I have not docked pocket money for AP illness but I would if I though she was taking advantage, I also have no idea what hours my AP does, but all her jobs are done each week so I haven't worried about it. I like your suggestion that you pay her pro rata until she makes the hours up.
I would stick to your guns about the 25 hours a week though - presumabley she knew the hours and the pocket money before she accepted the position!

As for breakages, I would be happy to foot the bill for an accident ie. dropped a mug but would want to charge AP if she broke something by not following instructions - but mine hasn't broken anything yet.

Are you sure you want to keep her on after Christmas - if you used an agency will they help replace her (you still have time to find someone via APworld to start after Christmas!)

Simply · 30/11/2008 17:41

Thanks very much for your posts.

squiffy I have to admit that I was hoping that she wouldn't come back after Christmas but she has now booked her return tickets. I suppose I could ask the agency if they're able to give her another position but tbh, she's still a lot better than the first one and she was here for 7 mths. I will tell her that I'll cut her pay when she's not well if it's a big deal over nothing. I will give her tasks to do instead of counting hours. Thanks for that suggestion. I have a timetable I gave her this last week. I can see she ticked off the tasks on Mon but perhaps she forgot about it on the other days. I think paying back for breakages via extra hours is fair. Thanks for that.

Millarkie Thanks for taking the time to advise me again. She did know that it was 25 hours a week but thought the pocket money rate was £65 a week (told this by her agency) rather than £60 (this is what my agency said the rate is.) She was then not pleased to hear that our 1st ap had worked 20 hours for £60. She asked and I told her but she could have found out by looking at the calendar or at the receipt book anyway. Sigh. I do need to let her know I'm not 100% happy and that she needs to improve. I've just written some notes ready for me to speak to her tomorrow. I've already spoken to the agency twice but said I'd speak to her though the agency lady said she'd do it if I didn't feel able to. We're not having anyone after this current ap. I'm going to have a cleaner and get language tuition for the kids in the evenings instead I think. The kids can do more around the house, too. I don't think I'm asking for too much but I'm astonished that aps find 9am an unreasonably early weekday start (esp bearing in mind that the rest of us are up and out of the house around 8am), complain about tiny things (buses and the like when we have a very good regular service here) etc.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how I get on!

OP posts:
Weegle · 30/11/2008 19:10

Crikey - my initial reaction is get rid.

However I agree with what the others have said. What previous AP did and at what rate is NOTHING to do with the contract SHE agreed to. I would be strict over hours with her as she is clearly taking the piss. If she was doing all chores with no grumbling, and being a positive person around the house I would be prepared for give and take but to me her attitude would make me keep a note of hours.

Sickness I would start not paying for sickness - and bet it improves or she walks. Then at your discretion if she genuinely has flu then you can change your mind but honestly, a sore knee doesn't prevent you from the majority of tasks. And you're doing her no favours for her future and learning about the world if you let her get away with that.

Breakages - my current AP is very careless and it drives me nuts as it clearly shows lack of respect for my property. I have already decided that the next time we have a breakage through carelessness (last one was a lovely cake tin I was given for my birthday completed dented) I will talk to her and tell her in future items need to be replaced. She can either buy them directly herself or work extra hours - I think this is fair and hopefully will get her to take better care of things. We've had hair dyed towels, broken plates, glasses, mud and sand in the dishwasher, a stolen bike, a stolen bike wheel, a DVD stuck in her DVD player, dyed laundry, the lock on the bathroom door broken, her curtain rail fall down, the list goes on!

I have to say I wouldn't be tolerating what you are. You are not a hotel and I think you definitely need to have a firm but fair reiteration of how things should be and if she doesn't improve in the few weeks before Christmas then ask her not to return. I don't think you're doing anyone, least of all them, any favours if they get away with laziness and rudeness. Being an AP is a pretty easy introduction to the big wide world, they certainly don't need it to be made any easier!

Simply · 30/11/2008 22:44

Weegle Thank you for your post and I agree that I am not doing her any favours for her future in the world of work if I don't ask her to make up hours lost due to day trips on working days etc. I think she has been so cossetted at home that she was absolutely clueless when she arrived (she literally didn't know that you had to peg things on the line not just drape them there, for example or that you don't put a few knicks and 1 top on a hour and a half 60 degree w/m load, or that you don't tumble dry just one top until it's dry etc) that I felt I had to allow for the culture shock. One problem with hours is that she can't cook and I'd asked the agency to check and she said she could. What apart from fish fingers (from frozen), spring rolls (ditto) and rice, I don't know! When I asked her what she could cook, I got a gobbledigook answer that if I gave her the recipe for something, she could follow it which isn't the same thing. I wouldn't have minded if I was told beforehand she couldn't and decided to have her here all the same.

The agency lady said to me last month that being an ap is a pretty easy introduction to the big wide world so you think alike.

I'm sorry to read about the breakages and I've read one of your threads about the stolen bike and felt sympathy at the time. Oh, well, I'd best get to bed. I hope to speak to her after work tomorrow. Thanks again for taking the time to post.

OP posts:
Weegle · 01/12/2008 18:39

Let us know how it went Simply

pookymum · 01/12/2008 23:12

I'm having a similar problem with my 'live-out' au pair. I thought it was such a good idea at the time but she's consistently late (at least 10 minutes everyday and occasionally up to 30 min) and has had 7 sick days off since August (4 months).
(I'm new here btw returning to education after five years as SATM and obviously not dealing with the childcare issues very well)

Simply · 02/12/2008 22:36

Well...some success. I mentioned one problem (her putting laundry in the w/m and going away o/n and the next day so I'm the one getting it out of the w/m, drying and airing it) but she got the wrong end of the stick and so I didn't get anywhere with that. I was dashing off to work and didn't want to stop and explain what I'd meant a second time so I left it. The next time it happens, I'll tell her straight away (if I can hold my nerve) and use this time as an example of it happening before. (Strewth, I hate managing someone or, at least, trying to.)

Something got broken again today but she feels very guilty and is insistent that she will replace it. It only costs about £2.50 but I was pleased that she'd said sorry and that she'll pay for the replacement. If she is careless again (not following instructions type careless) then I'll point out what she's doing wrong and I'll say that she'll have to replace the item or work extra hours if she damages or breaks it. I'm sure that will do the trick and if not, we both know what the arrangement is. Saying that, working extra hours is really tricky over a certain amount per week as my children are teenagers and are so independant and there's only so much housework to be done in a week, especially when the person doing it is an ap. Still, only 3 mths to go and some of that is hols.

I think I'll speak to the agency lady about sick pay. I think I will say that I've looked into it and what I should do with regards to sick pay is x and that I'll be doing it in future so that she knows what to expect.

pookymum I'd sit her down (hark at me, easy to say and not to do!) and say that her being late is inconvenient because it causes you name the difficulty here and ask her what causes her to be late. If it's a bus problem then can she catch an earlier one or if she finds it hard to get up on time, can she programme her mobile to ring/go to bed earlier/whatever? As for the sick days, were they genuine days or "I can't be bothered" type days? You will need a back-up plan for when she is sick and if this costs you £x or a day of annual leave or a day off college then make sure she knows that. Good luck!

OP posts:
Weegle · 03/12/2008 08:03

Well done Simply - remain firm and see how you go. With regards to making up hours - I think it is fair if there's nothing else to do that's needed you could request other tasks e.g. helping you tidy out the shed, chopping veg for an additional meal etc. I am about to stop all of my AP's house work bar the odd hoover and get her helping me making up boxes and packing (we are moving) - she's agreed and it's what I need. I don't need a pristeen house now I need a packed one! Let's hope your improves and the agency fixes the sickness problem

pookymum I think 7 days is reasonable if it has been genuine sickness? I've been ill much more than that since August which is not great but if AP had caught any of the bugs I had she would have been too but only you can judge if they were genuine... With the lateness thing you need to say to her - she's here to make your life easier - it's making you stressed when she's late because of x reason. She HAS to fix this. Make it clear it's a sticking point for you.

Simply · 03/12/2008 22:38

Thanks Weegle for the continued support. Good luck with the packing. Moving house is such a busy, not to mention stressful, time. Better not allocate your ap the crockery box though, eh?

I forgot to say that yesterday I insisted that my ap did something my way instead of her flying-by-the-seat-of-her-pants-at-my-expense way. I was proud of myself for saying it and sticking to it though she was not pleased.

I have a new problem to tackle and I'm going to talk to her about that tomorrow as it could well result in her hurting herself accidentally. It's absolutely avoidable, too. Just 5 minutes is all that's needed to keep her safe and just once a day! I think I'll tie it in with the no more full sick pay talk. If she baulks, I'll suggest that she talks to the agency lady who I think I'll brief beforehand.

OP posts:
VirginBoffinMum · 03/12/2008 22:53

I would definitely get rid of this one. She's having a laugh. You often get one or other of these problems, but not the whole lot at once.

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