Mileage

[likessleep]

We have found a childminder who we are very happy with and who has availability. We were really chuffed and very impressed with her attitudes towards childcare, range of activities and warmth. She is by far the best we've seen, in an area where they are hard to come by!
She is more expensive than other childminders we've seen, but felt happy to pay more, especially as we are looking for someone for just two days a week.
However, we got the contract through today and she has included 50p per mile for mileage. As she does a 20 mile round trip to a baby and toddler group on one of the two two days, this would mean an extra £40 a month.
Am I being mean by asking if there is any negotiation on this? From me singing from the treetops last week, so chuffed to have found someone who I was very impressed by, I have been left a little disappointed that she is proposing 50p a mile, which seems a lot to me.
Would appreciate your honest thoughts please.

mine charges £1 a trip (each way) for playschool drop-off/pick-up (a couple of miles at most). But this is something I am asking her to do. If it is her choice to go to the groups I think it is unreasonable to charge you mileage.

thanks for responding. i feel mean asking her about it, but i kind of feel she is taking the mickey a bit, which is why i've been in a bad mood today. the government recommend a 40p a mile for business use.
i just wondered what others charge/get charged, so thank you for responding.
difficult one.

Im a CM and also know many more - and I have never heard of a CM charging the parents mileage.

I just add 40p per mile onto my expenses.

20 mile round trip is also a bit much. Is there not a M & T closer. I have about 6 within 4 miles of my house.

Also will your child be the only one she takes to M & T groups?

thanks abbafan. no she has others she takes too. she actually has a variation on her cert to look after 4 (is the usual 3, it is all confusing to me!).
when you say you add 40p a mile onto your expenses, do you charge these as extra to your parents or are they included in your hourly rate?
sorry to ask, but i am wondering the best way to tackle this with her.
it is a 20 mile trip, as she lives out in the sticks a bit, we live 5 miles from town and she lives another 5 miles from us.

thank you so much for posting. i have been thinking about it all day and not sure what to do. i think i am going to say to her that it is a cost we hadn't accounted for and given that it will be that much each month, ask whether there is any flexibility on it.

I charge £4.00 PH and that includes food, activities, everything. I have never even thought about charging for petrol. So yes, I just add the mileage to my expenses. For me, I don't want to charge for extras because it just bumps up my income, and then I have more tax to pay. So by adding food, petrol, entry fee's etc to my expenses, it offset's it better.

Anyway, if she is charging upto 4 sets of parents a mileage fee of 50p per mile, she is making a great profit!

I would ask her if the mileage can be shared between all the parents.

£4.00 is the going rate near me. but this childminder is charging £4.50, which as i say, we were happy to stump up (i have seen others charging £5.00) but this petrol thing has made me a little cynical (which is a horrible feeling for such an emotive, big decision - yes my pfb!! ).
that cost doesn't include food, but does include activities.
thank you so much, i think i need to take the bull by the horns and say that whilst we are very keen, we cannot justify an additional £40 on mileage. it is quite a tidy sum.

I am pretty sure that if a childminder charges for mileage, there are implications for the car insurance. We are not supposed to be operating like taxi drivers, or we have to have a different business insurance for cars.

thanks theprisoner, i hadn't even thought of that.
all of your postings have reassured me that i am not being ott about this and that it doesn't seem to be a common occurrence.
thanks so much, i will speak to her about it tomorrow.

As a nanny, as I in theory charge my employer for mileage, my car insurance includes Hire & Reward as part of my childcare job. My car is effectively now a mini-bus, but with only 5 seats!

Childminders can claim against tax either the Fixed Profit Car Scheme rate, or the actual cost of car expenses (you can only change between schemes when a vehicle is replaced) - see HMRC Document: BIM52751
To be able to claim the amount, the childminder must ensure that the journey is "wholly and exclusively for business purposes". So if they were collecting from school, which includes their own child, then it would not meet that criteria. However, if they were taking minded children to a toddler group, without their own children being present, then that journey is "wholly and exclusively for business purposes". Additional costs such as parking charges, are also claimable.

likessleep - negotiate the contract. Everything is negotiable, though if the childminder will negotiate is another matter. If they won't, then you need to consider if you can foot the bill, or if you will look at other childcare providers.

But is 50p a mile reasonable?

I think 50p a mile would be expensive if you was only taking your child to something that you said you wanted your child to go to. She has decided to go to this group and is taking ?3 other children too so I think it is completely unreasonable.

childminders arent supposed to charge mileage are they ?! have never paid mine and never would,well not 50p per mile anyways!

nannies are different

50ppm seems a very high amount

nannies normally charge 40p but obv only work for that family - but obv she is a cm

if she is taking other children, i hope that she doesnt charge each parent 50p

not sure how you would work it out as a cm,assume put it down as exspenses as i do when i am se as a temp/mn nanny

Have you thought of hiring a cab driver to look after your offspring?? Might be cheaper than this childminder.

Sounds like she's ripping you off. Bet she's charging all the parents that and making £40 a trip. Nice little earner.

50p is high, but not extortionate imo.
But as I posted originally I would not be happy paying it for her to go to groups that she was chosing to go to, rather than doing drop-off/pick-up that I was asking her to do.

cm and nannies need to go to groups to keep their sanity.so think it is fair to charge mileage as a nanny or claim back as exspenses as a cm

I'm sure there is something that says we are NOT ALLOWED to do this as we would then be classed as a taxi driver! That's why we claim mileage instead. Wish I could remember the thread that confirmed this was not allowed.

do YOU require that your children go to this group PR does your CM choose to take them.

If you dont require that they go then i think its a bit cheeky (But I DO understand that woth small children you have get out somewhere or else you drive yourself mad)

I think 50p per mile is was OTT... if i get more than 40p per mile (which i dont, i get 40p) then I would have to pay tax on any extra so does that mean she pays tax on the extra 10p?
40p per mile is the max that inland rev allow

I didnt realsie that CM charge for petrol for journeys they choose the make (I did realise some charge for school pick ups that parents dictate) and i think that 50p per mile is unreasonable.

If she does charge you mileage then she should be distributing the cost of this between all the children in her care. She could be charging every parent 50p a mile for all you know!

She might also be claiming mileage back off her expenses- meaning she is being reimbursed for it again!

My understanding was that if you were paid any more than 40p per mile you have to pay tax on the rest but I'm not completely sure of that.

As I understand it, childminders can claim either the Approved Mileage Rate, or the Actual Cost, for mileage done "wholly and exclusively for business purposes". They can deduct the amount from their profits - thus meaning that they declare less profit, and thus pay less income tax.

If a childminder decides to charge parents an amount for transportation, then that amount goes on their books as income. From that they can then deduct the Approved Mileage Rate (most would choose this method as it is easier and does not require recording details of every journey made), or the Actual Cost. So if the amount charged to parents is higher than the amount they are claiming back, then that left over amount is all profit, which is then taxed.

Ultimately it is up to the childminder what their terms of business are. Parents can try to negotiate a contract.

Is 50p per mile reasonable? If per child, then no I don't think it is. If it is split between all fee paying customers for that particular journey, then yes it's probably about right given costs of fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc.

Thank you all so much for your input, it has really helped me think about things.
DH keeps telling me not to think too much about it until I talk to her about it tomorrow.
But I do agree that 50p per parent per mile is a lot of money. I need to check everything with her and say that we are unhappy with this part of the contract. Hopefully she will be flexible/there will be a reasonable explanation and we can go forward. But I am not prepared for her to profit from this mileage, which is what I have the issue with.
It would be so much easier if it was all included in her hourly rate, in terms of my monthly budget.
Thank you again, all of your feedback has helped and I feel more confident to discuss this further with her.

Can I ask, a few of you have talked about 'claiming mileage back off of expenses'. What do you mean by this?
Is this a separate amount that a CM claims back from the government? Or do parents pay this within the hourly rate?
Sorry for asking probably a very stupid question, but a little bit of information may help my case!
Thanks