Am I being taken for a ride here...?! What do CMs charge for and what do they not...?

[misspollysdolly]

About to have my DSs (age 3 and 7 months) start with a new CM. This is her first job and she does not have her own children. TBH I have had a few misgivings on top of the usual anxiety about handing them over to somebody else, but have generally been trying to be positive about the set-up.

Have signed contracts now so not much I can do about the things I'm worrying about but tonight I'm just wonderin if I'm being taken for a bit of a ride.

I am paying her £5 per hour per child (DS1 at playgroup in the mornings) so a cost of £60 per day for two boys (only two days per week). Included in this is basically nothing apart from her containing them in her house for the day.

If I want food, it's an extra cost of £1.25 per ?meal. If she takes them out to any group/club/museum etc it will be added to the next bill. I am providing her with towels, muslins, flannels which I will need to send clean each day (i.e laundering them here myself). I am providing all wipes and nappies. She is refusing to do my DSs playgroup pick up as she doesn't want to have to get all the children in and out of the car, so DH is having to re-work his day to collect DS1 and drop him at the CM for the afternoon. She was even not overly happy being asked to provide a daily record of activites/food/toiletting etc - I have bought the notebooks for these myself and labelled them accordingly as I want to know what my children have been doing in her care.

Am I being unreasonable to question some of these things with her now, even after the contract has been signed...? We are her first family, but she is our third CM (we have 3 DCs) and so far is charging us the most for the least amount of service.

What do I do...??!!

The boys have a settling in morning with her tomorrow (at a cost of £25) and I really feel I need to address some of these things with her. After some thought and a chat with DH tonight, I would like: a daily written (brief) record, the towels I provide her with to be laundered and kept at her house, any outings to Toddler groups to be included in the £120 per week I am paying her, and possibly a basic (cold, sandwich-y) lunch to be provided for DS1 when he gets to her from playgroup. A pick-up from playgroup would help out immensely but I may be pushing my luck there.

Is it pointless trying to negotiate these things now...?

She sounds terrible. IS there no other CM that you could use?

uh yes get out of this arrangement now. you already have a gut instinct about this CM, so to not act on it would be madness imo. Something doesn't ring true - is she definitely registered??

trust your instincts and DO NOT use this lady

as malovitt said, if you are her 1st job, she has no other children, why on earth cant she pick up your ds from nursery?

there seem lots of negative reasons and no postitive ones why you should use her as your cm

Depends where you are but £30 per days for each child isn't very much where I live. I charge £40 per day each and I know some CM's who charge £50 per day each (SW London)
HOWEVER The only things you should be providing are nappies, maybe wipes (I don't charge for wipes), sun cream and a change of clothes plus any medication/calpol (with written permission).
Food should be included as well as school runs - depending how far the school is. If it's a 5-10 min walk then I wouldn't charge but if a car journey I would charge to cover petrol/car useage.
She should be doing daily diaries anyway I always ask the parents at registration to provide a diary/notebook so I can record what they've eaten/drunk and how much they've slept plus any extra info about our day if the parents would like.

Have you got access to a Childcare Information website?

They send you lists of local registered childminders.

My CM's I use 2 are excellent,neither provide a written record,but at the moment I'm not on a "contract" as my work is sporadic,but they give me verbal accounts.

They charge £6.50-£7.00/hour for my 2 DD's (one has a sibling discount,although the NCMA don't recommend this)

One of them provides all meals/sandwiches/snacks etc.(the one who gives the discount)at no extra cost. The other doesn't.

I supply my changebag with everything in it,and always have.

If they are in the local area,they have all done Playgroup runs,and any other activities are paid for by the CM.

If I were you,I would have a discussion with her,if you get no joy,or are still uncomfortable,try and look elsewhere,or get them into a Day Nursery,even for a stopgap to give you time to look,don't think it will cost you much more to be honest. Good Luck.

Have you tried HERE

I am sorry to say that this CM sounds like she is taking the pee.

The not doing pickup for you sounds .

I appreciate that you have had difficulty in finding any CM, but please think again.

Thanks for responding everyone.

She is a registered CM (have seen her relevant certificates, contracts are NCMA) and I got in touch with her through the Children's Infor Service - thanks for suggesting it Sawyer64 anyway. And TBH when I am with her, in her house with my kids, my gut feeling is pretty good.(Itry to go on this TBH - hence my angst last night. SHe's OK but there's something not quite right.)

I went for her a. because she had spaces and b. because she is in our local area (our last CM lived 4 miles or so away outside the city, so poor DH had a mega school/CM run two days a week).

She is new to the job and doesn't have experience of her own kids on which to base her practice but she grew up with a Mum who was a CM for 20 years, and has just given up the job she's had for several years in order to take up CM'ing so I do feel confident that she wants to do this, and is committed to providing a service for familes.

I also felt that despite my few misgivings (mainly the first job and lack of first hand experience really) that someone needs to give her a break.

DH and I had a fairly good, frank discussion with her today and she is going to keep/sort the towels, flannels and muslins, and also (I'm hoping) collect DS from playgroup on a Wednesday (DH is in that part of town on a Thursday so it actually makes sense for him to collect and deliver DS on a Thurs as long as this is not too confusing for him).

I have also asked that outings are taken from the weekly pay and not charged as extra - esp as it's likely she'll only be going to one or two toddler groups anyway. I made it clear that her charges are very high and that I therefore expect more for my money. In the fullness of time I am going to ask her to provide DS1 with a sandwich lunch after playgroup.

I think what has happened is that she has been given some really bad advice from the two CMs who are have been supervising her in the first bit of her training or her back-up CM. She said herself that they told her what to charge and that she hadn't realised her charges were high - though I feel she could easily have looked into this better. One of them also told her to keep any retainer/deposit as profit [shock} which she said she knows she cannot do. And it is these two CMs who told her she should definitely charge for settling in. I might broach this subject and aks it to be included in my first invoice.

She said herself that she feels uncomfortable asking for money so I think she has just been a bit of a sheep where money is concerned. I'm going to email later, thank her for the openness of the discussion earlier and tell her that I feel she's had bad advice. Just not sure whether I can push it and ask her to reduce her hourly rate...? What do you think?!

On the whole I feel better having spoken to her. She is a sweet girl and I don't have a bad gut feeling with her caring abilities with the boys - I just knew, having had two great CMs before (plus I run a Toddler group so know a number of good CMs), that something was amiss.

Thanks everyone...

Thank you for update misspolly.

Good luck.

Thanks especially to those of you who are CMs as you have given me a realistic idea of charges and inclusions to those charges. I would like my CM to know these responses nut without all of the 'I think she's crap' responses.

I am going to start a new (v brief) thread asking for just a presse of information with regards to these things.

I would really be so grateful if you wouldn't mind contributing.

I am glad that you have had a good chat with her, and hopefully sorted things out. She should have c/m mentor or buddy, who is more experienced at helping new c/m's set up their business and guide them carefully through new clients.

I hope that you feel happier now, it is best to sort it put at the beginning and start off on the right footing!

I am happy to add constructive advice.

Can you link to your new thread?

Ali thread here

Thanks Boys for adding the link. Really appreciate that!

Ali, it's the CM buddy/mentor from whom she has had her advice, which frankly makes me really

Do you think her CM pal might be giving her bad advice because she is worried about the competition?

Has she looked at the childcarelink site herself to see what other local CM charge/offer?

Oh dear, that's really bad. I am a mentor for 10 c/m's a year and always advise people of the average rate, but have to say, some are starting off charging more than I do with 22 years experience!

I only wanted to comment on settling-in payment as several CMs have expressed surprise about this being charged for.

If a parent stays with their child at my house, then I do not charge.

However, if a child is left at my house for settling-in and I am caring for that child, then I charge my normal hourly rate.

This is the way that all of the minders I know personally operate.

ThePrisoner

I'm glad you brought the settling-in payment up as I was just going to!

I also charge for any settling-in hours and no parent has ever queried this.

yep - i charge for settling in sessions too - at my normal hourly rate.

i also charge for meals{going rate for local school dinner} but generally they bring a packed lunch.

i don't charge extra for playgroups as i go for a chance to meet friends too, so it's for my benefit as well as mindees.

parents supply nappies-wipes-babyfood & milk.

c/m not providing flannels and towels is ridiculous - and refusing to launder yours is farcical.

re: op missPolly - i don't understand why you signed the contracts when there were soooo many things you had issues with? It's you 3rd childminder surely you are an old hand at contracts and negotiations by now?

anyway hopefully everything is sorted now - goodluck with it.

I charge for settling in on the same basis as ThePrisoner, if the child is left in my sole care. It's normal rate here too.
I certainly charge for food, lunch or dinner. I make healthy meals using good quality ingredienents. Its the parents choice to take this up or provide their own food. I also charge if we do a special trip (sometimes we go on a steam train or to a theme park , i would charge for this). I simply couldn't afford to offer these things from my own pocket.
I do launder flannels etc though!
I dont provide wipes or nappies, couldn't afford to.

Oh good. It sounds you're getting the balance of your relationship right and your further discussions have cleared a few things up. She's new, she's bound to make a few mistakes, but with 3 CMs under your belt, so to speak, she should realise your are woman of some experience! You could well point her in the direction of MN for some CM advice since hers so far seems rubbish!

My CM seems impressively organised but I'm going to help her a bit with EYFS which looks like a complete PITA.

Apart from thinking that this lady is obviously pants, the only thing she has got right (probably by complete chance) is that you are not supposed to launder anything from home,( see current infection control guidelines) even if kids are sick etc, you may however rinse them in your machine ( which seems extra odd but thats what it says)
Other CM's please let me know If i have read this wrong as I have changed my policy to state this fact.
she can of course charge what she likes IF the parent is willing to pay it. there should alwyas be a cooling off period and get out clause for first few weeks etc and no, charging for settling in is not on really.

i don't see why it's not on to charge for settling in?
i'm settling in a baby at the moment on days i have no other kids why shouldn't i charge?

kiddi, can you lead me to where this is stated. I have read all the `NICE guidlines etc and cannot find anything.

In 22 years as a c/m `I have not come across this. I frequently wash childrens clothes if necessary, especially knicker/pants when potty training.

i would never send home anything dirty, i would have thought that more of a risk.