Do I have to still pay when childminder takes a holiday?

[colacubes]

Obviously this isnt just a money issue as child minder is a trusted professional who takes care of my dd, so dont want to upset the applecart, but.

I go to pick dd up and the cm informs me she is having a 2 week holiday in 6 weeks, so fine,obviously I will have to make other arrangements, so I mention the situation in regard to fees, to which she replies, "Oh I still get paid, its my holidays"

So my question is, I pay for her service, she is not an employee, so why do I have to pay for her bloody holidays. I am self employed and no bugger pays me. I of course said nothing, my mind ticking, slightly bemused, and trying to think about the bigger picture.

Until today I get a text informing me she is booking another day of later in the year as a holiday and I will have to pay for this day also. So I will either have to pay for her day off and then pay someone else to care for my dd, or pay for her day off and take one myself to care for dd, and not get paid, because, I am self employed!

Is this a normal arrangement with childminders ?

Yes, contract does not state paying for holidays, mentions days when sick will not be paid for no mention of hols, I stupidly expected a self employed person to have unpaid holidays, cause, hey you work for yourself not me.

As for cms, I think you seem to have enough upside down clauses in place to save your asses when it comes to your claim, that poor us dont get paid enough, we cant afford to cover our selves on our own leave we need other peoples cash to pay for our holidays. please tell me if you do a job that you feel does not cover your out goings or the extras you feel are needed in your life, why dont you do another job!!!!! I pay £35 per day, thats £175 per week, she has 4 children, thats £700 per week shes hardly skint.

Simple as this, self employed, equals paying for your self, its that simple, you want to cover sick leave, maternity leave, everything else, do the maths total it up add it to the cost of your services, do not add it as an extra cost.

As for 2 weeks up front thats called a loan!

My CM is a bit upset because she's just managed to take her kids away for two weeks abroad for the first time, she'll be back for two weeks then she has jury duty which she can't charge us for and they're offering her £30 a day compensation! Her husband works for her but isn't a full CM so he doesn't work if she doesn't. I do actually feel for her on that one.

I agree with you cola, TBD gets less than that a fortnight. My ex was self employed and we took a certain amount out of each pay to cover sick and holiday pay.

I agree that expecting being paid 2 weeks in advance for holidays is quite ridiculous. I can't imagine any job where that happens on a regular and assumed basis.

But much as I sympathise with you colacubes, your comments should be directed at the particular CM in question, and not to all CMs indiscriminately.

Fundamentally you don't seem to have a good relationship with this CM. Hope you're looking elsewhere.

parents, you seem to be missing the point here. NCMA (NATIONAL CHILDMINDING ASSOCIATION) actively encourage Childminders to charge for 4 weeks of their holidays. It is in black ink on the back of the contracts that we purchase from them to give to parents.

the op should not pay her cm anything for holidays as she has not signed a contracts that says she should.

temps now get holiday pay and sick pay by the way!

"As for cms, I think you seem to have enough upside down clauses in place to save your asses when it comes to your claim, that poor us dont get paid enough, we cant afford to cover our selves on our own leave we need other peoples cash to pay for our holidays. please tell me if you do a job that you feel does not cover your out goings or the extras you feel are needed in your life, why dont you do another job!!!!! "

wow, regarless of the discrepancies in your cm's policies, im so glad I am not your child minder, what a horrible, accusing and snide person you sound, i dont agree she sould charge if not stated, nor should she want it in advance,i would, if i knew her, suggest she does get her t&c in order if only to prevent people like you from coming on a mums forum, badmouthing her BEFORE you've even had the adult ability to go and speak to her!

I dont have clauses, i have policies to prevent people from trying to take advantage

Why does a organisation that represents childminders encourage cm to claim holidays? Because it works for better working arrangements for its members,(more money, better life, happy cm), so it is a biased organisation.

I want one called NPAFFWKWC ,"National Parents Association For Folks With Kids With Childminders" that suggests we do not pay holiday money to a person who is not an employee, so that's that sorted then?

why dont you just take your child out of the childminders and stay at home with her/him?, you obviously have no respect for her or any other childminder for that matter which is the sole reason our job is so hard, trying to gain respect for a bloody hard job, i hope your cm is reading this and gives YOU notice

Pink, no names are mentioned, my real name is not colacubes, believe it or not, and as for my comment you re posted that was in reply to your gleeful comment about being so pleased that someone is sticking up for cm, well I am sticking up for parents who disagree.

You are right I am not a happy bunny about paying a grown adult who works for themselves to have a holiday, if snide then so be it, if horrible then so be it, if accusing, then you haven't read the thread because this is fact not accusations!!!

Eh stay at home, why will you pay for my holidays then?

just because she looks after 4 children does not mean she would be earning the same amount for each child. you need to take this whole thing up with her and then perhaps start looking for alternative care.

you dont seem happy with the care this cm is giving you, i suggest the only way you will be happy with any care is to actually provide it yourself, thus NOT paying someone else to do the job.

i HAVE read the whole thread, it reads very much the same as many others and many more will follow, everyones happy and doesnt 'bother' to question anything, puts it to the back of their mind, but when a situation like this arrises then blows up before actually speaking to the person concerned..if your cm IS reading this, im sure she would be able to work out who you are due to your posts and info about hols, pay, dates etc.

I don't have a cm and have never been a cm, but I agree with colacubes that it seems really strange that some cms view themselves as self emplyed - yet still expect to be paid for their holidays. The issue isn't about what was or wasnt in the contract - just because something is in a contract doesn't mean its reasonable. The issue also has nothing to do with respect for cms - colacubes is just pointing out an anomaly and asking for people's opinion.

but if something is in a contract and one doesnt think it is reasonable, one shouldnt sign it!! ( i am aware op didnt have this in her contract) or, even try and negotiate with the cm.

whether a cm does or doesnt charge for hols, it IS important what it states in contract, obv CC's cm didnt put it in, HER mistake, so she shouldnt charge..BUT CC should have questioned it from the start.

Cm's are always going to get slated over this ONE issue, maybe we should all just put our hourly fee up to compensate then..any other SE person charges what they like and mostly a lot more!, tradesmen charge stupid amounts to cover such things as they dont have a client all year/longer sometimes, they go from job to job, we look after someones most precious child all year and pathetic hourly fees and when we have to mention holiday's and fees we get slated!..really really sad, but it will NEVER change..said my piece, going over and over old ground and getting off subject.

no she shouldnt charge as it didnt say so, so CC should now go and speak to her and ask WHY she is charging if it wasnt agreed?

but from what colacubes says its NOT in the contract that she should pay holiday pay - but seems to be common practice?

Don't any of you see the contradiction being pointed out?

many people have said IF its in the contract she SHOULD pay, but we can all see now it was NOT in contract..so obv she shouldnt pay!??????

If it isnt in the contract then you shouldnt be paying for her holidays.
How many weeks off a year does she think she in entitled to?

nervousal, at last a reasonable mind, thank you!

Pink if I stayed at home, my kids would starve, my house would be lost and no doubt there would be no holidays!

My cm is no different from any other, she has "hols, pay, dates etc." as you stated, so unless she was a mind reading CM she would not know that I was CC and she is the CM concerned, that is why we all remain anonymous same as I wont tell your parents that they make your job hard, cause i dont know who you are!!!

Not asking how many dont plan to be there any longer than her notice that I will served on monday!

Reason I am paying is because she is a carer for my dd and no matter how annoying it is to be hood winked, I can not let that have any ill effect on the relationship my dd and her share.

my parents KNOW and appreciate my job is hard, it wouldnt be a JOB otherwise..i KNOW of people on here who have been recognised previously..but anyway, not the issue..have you asked her what her policy is and told her as it was not in contract you dont agree to paying?

When my friend found a childminder a few years ago the advice from the Council was that she should expect to pay 4 weeks holiday. I can see it's not easy sometimes but most childcare providers (including nurseries) charge for more than just the time used.

I pay my CM weekly at the start of the week and so far those days when I've chosen not to use her or bank holidays have been paid too. True, dp and I are both employees but as the current system means parents have to cover childcare out of their income, however difficult that is, that's what I expect to do.

This has made me realise I'm not sure of the deal on paid holidays for her, but so far she hasn't taken any. I'm sure she'd give me plenty of notice though. Her eldest daughter is also registered as an assistant for her.

so why do the ncma advise cm's to put in holiday pay considering they are se?

as stated by many people - se people do not get paid holiday or sickness pay - my hubby doesnt

though also agree that IF it is in the contract, then should be paid, and then is the fault of the parents for not reading the contract or for reading, signing and agreeing

you can basically put anything in your contract - for example I have in mine that i get paid 6weeks sick pay, and that any holidays over 2 weeks that employer chooses, that i the nanny, will still be paid in full

sure many of you mums (employers to nannies) will disagree to this, but thats what is in my contract and my mb was happy to sign it

this is why i always put everything in writing again and again and again. a contract is legally binding so if it has been signed i would expect the parent to have read through it all with a fine tooth combe. i would refuse to pay her holidays, if she gets funny you probably have grounds to leave sooner, what is the notice period, have you checked the contract with regard to that?

found this on daycare trust site;Childminders are self-employed so to some extent they set the ?policies? regarding sick pay and holiday pay. Childminding rates are a childminder?s income, so like all workers, they need to ensure that their income is maintained. All details relating to sick pay and holiday pay should be made clear in the Contract between the childminder and the parent. It should state when parents will and won?t pay fees (e.g. when child/parent are on holiday, when childminder is on holiday / when child/parent is off sick, when childminder is off sick) and also any notice period required (for example some childminders may not charge a fee or may charge a reduced fee if either parent or childminder notifies the other far enough in advance of forthcoming holidays.)

perhaps cms should all work for nothing, that would make it easier for all you hard done parents wouldnt it