Do I have to still pay when childminder takes a holiday?

[colacubes]

Obviously this isnt just a money issue as child minder is a trusted professional who takes care of my dd, so dont want to upset the applecart, but.

I go to pick dd up and the cm informs me she is having a 2 week holiday in 6 weeks, so fine,obviously I will have to make other arrangements, so I mention the situation in regard to fees, to which she replies, "Oh I still get paid, its my holidays"

So my question is, I pay for her service, she is not an employee, so why do I have to pay for her bloody holidays. I am self employed and no bugger pays me. I of course said nothing, my mind ticking, slightly bemused, and trying to think about the bigger picture.

Until today I get a text informing me she is booking another day of later in the year as a holiday and I will have to pay for this day also. So I will either have to pay for her day off and then pay someone else to care for my dd, or pay for her day off and take one myself to care for dd, and not get paid, because, I am self employed!

Is this a normal arrangement with childminders ?

It's a different relationship with your CM, though, IME. I employed mine for seven years. I paid XXX per week. It wasn't ad-hoc like my paid by the day work.

I charge a high daily rate precisely because I don't get paid holiday, but I've never heard of a CM who charged what I do!

At the end of the day, many cms charge something for their holiday. I also wouldn't advise a parent that i'm going off on holiday next week! I have a written clause in my contract that I have to give 4 weeks written notice. As I want to keep good relations with the parents I would always give a few months notice when I need time off. Everyone has their own opinion and I have never come across an issue about my paid time off. Therefore, parents I have dealt with are happy to pay the little time off I have a year. I appreciate your view and opinion colacubes.

I don't tell my childminder that I am highly pissed off to have to pay all her holidays. Given that this is the school holidays we are talking about, it's not small beer. But I have to have a good relationship with her and moaning wouldn't help. Should I ever use a childminder again (I am currently a SAHM) I would love to find someone like Ripeberry

cant be arsed to read the thread just first couple of posts -
colacubes - when you contracted your c/m you signed a contract if you read it properly and it said you have to pay for a certain number days of paid holidays why did you sign it if you don't agree with it?

vIn if you cant be arsed, then why bother with your half arsed comment??

You'll have to check your contract. I personally wouldn't use one that charged as I believe being self employed means you dont get the perks of holiday pay etc.

Ripeberry, unless you have a lot of teachers in your area you may not be very busy as holiday time is when most parents need cover as no school hours.

I wouldn't mind paying for holidays because I could budget it out over the year. I can see that a regular cash flow is useful for childminders, and as long as the average payments over the year were reasonable, then that would be fine.

Sick pay is different, because it is unpredictable. And while I appreciate this is also a problem for a childminder, it would put me off.

But I used a nursery, so what do I know?

assume colacube you have a contract with your CM, and you signed it agreeing to pay her for her holidays, and for as many as she wants?

if not in contract, then dont pay her, if it is in contract, why on earth did you agree and sign it?

exactly!!!

I agree, done and dusted at this point, but am confused as to why one profession is able to charge holiday pay, and this is accepted as quite reasonable when self employed, but no other self employed profession would (that I can think of.

Why is that, not an employee? Why is a client responsible for a self employed persons holiday time, does that mean I can refuse her this time off as it doesnt suit me the employer!! can I can dock her pay when I think she hasnt done the correct hours, or issue her with written warnings, no, so why the perks but not the rest of employee status?

Sounds like cake and eating it to me?

i pay 50 weeks a year. this year cm is taking four weeks rather than two in august so i am not paying for them. she usually has a week at easter and xmas. this seems pretty normal arrangement.

i expect any cm who didn't charge for hols would charge a slightly higher rate. depends on the customer really.

the other way childminders can do it is charge more per hour to cover things like sick pay/holiday pay {which is how most other self-employed work it} BUT as there is no rulebook for c/m's it means that if you do this and others don't you can price yourself out of the market. IYSWIM.

I can't afford to use my childminder in the holidays, as at 10 pounds an hour for the two of them it would be very expensive. I'd rather send them to day camps (it's half the cost for ordinary ones, or about the same for fancy ones, but a lot more delivered) and juggle with family and annual leave.

i guess as a se person, they can charge what they like, when they like as long as there are parents like yourself who pay it iykwim

obv parents do seem to pay her or other cm holiday/sickness or they wouldnr be able to get away with it - does that make sense?

maybe worth changing your cm to one who doesnt charge?

in hubby's case, he is se, if he doesnt work for WHATEVER reason, holiday, ill etc, then he doesnt get paid!!

do some childminders just make the rules up as they go along? or do parents just not read anything before they sign. i cant believe this question keeps coming up again and again. all these things should be sorted when contracts and policies are signed and reviewed each year.

colacubes. WHERE IS YOUR CONTRACT? It should answer all those questions.

I do not understand it. This is the person you have entrusted your children with. If you have that much distrust of and animosity towards her, then why have you allowed her to look after your child. AND if you have signed a contract, how on earth can YOU a professed self-employed person, who is presumably used to reading contracts for yourself, not do so before creating a contract regarding what should be the most precious thing in your life. And if you didn't sign a contract, why on earth not? That would be wise with any person you take on. Surely at a minimum you would do it for your child's caretaker.

It really does amaze me the disparity between the care people put into a selecting clothing, electronics, cars, groceries. But often don't put anywhere near the same due diligence into selecting the caretaker for their most precious child. And here in the land of rich entertainers (Los Angeles), I have seen people spend easily $80,000 a year on their secretary and begrudge half that to their nanny.

very very well put.

"this is accepted as quite reasonable when self employed, but no other self employed profession would" Because you don't expect a plumber to be available 48 weeks a year then find differnent client for the 4 weeks you/they go on holiday.

I look at it as having a place at my CM all year round for my DS - for which she charges me a fixed monthly fee - she is away for up to four weeks a year (agreed in advance) and I may choose or not to take my holiday s at the same time (which I do).

She could if it kept me happier, not charge me for the time she takes on holiday and charge a higher rate but its all a bit pointless. Childminders don't earn anything like what most other self employed people do IME with twice the paperwork and a huge responsibility.

Also some of the problems come up because many parents visit the childminder on an evening, just glance at the policies, ask a few questions, glance at the contract and sign there and then.
I would feel more comfortable to just give the prospective parents a copy of ALL my policies with a filled in contract and then they can take it away to look at it PROPERLY and then bring them back signed.
Then there can be no disputes (hopefully!)
Sometimes i think there is too much pressure on both parties to sign on the dotted line there and then.

Thanks Nooka, but seriously the main reason i would not do holiday cover is because my DH likes to go off on day trips at the drop of a hat (i'm currently SAHM also) and he does not like me not being available (grin).
Last year i was doing Home Care for the elderly during the evenings and at weekends and he just hated me doing it.
I've also got to think of my own daughters aged 6yrs and 3yrs as they would like to have me to themselves during the holidays.
Of course during the LONG summer holidays i could always negotiate something with a parent and my DH would just have to stuff it

anyone who calls/emails about childcare gets a copy of my handbook before they even come to visit me. this details all my fees etc. they take my policy and contract home to read properly before signing.

Sofia I have no animosity toward anyone, I have discussed the contract situation earlier in thread. As you state I am a professional contract signer! I have queried the cm policy of holiday pay when self employed, it is puzzling to me!!

As for my choice of child minder she was highly recommended by a health professional, that is why my dd is there, all checks were carried out, fees discussed, holidays, well I think that this was fuzzed over, as was told for sick days we would not pay if she was unable to work, I of course must have confused this along with holidays, as I did read contract!

But have to say Sofia, you seem a little pissed!

cm should have given you a copy of the contract? if not, ask to see a copy. NCMA recommend childminders take paid hols, its on the back of the contracts, which is why most cms are starting to do it.

As a parent who used a childminder and got surprised at the holiday issue, dh and I did spend some time with her (yes in the evening!) we discussed the things that were most important to us, which were all about how she looked after the children in her care. Of course we talked about fees too, but for whatever reason we came away thinking that if she (not us) took holiday we wouldn't pay for it, because we confused the sick leave section with the holiday section, and because we didn't imagine that she would have what seems to me a completely unreasonable clause to be able to take whatever holiday she liked (with notice) whilst making us pay for it. Now that was our fault for not crawling all over the contract, and for making the assumption that the high fee charged per hour was balanced out by not paying in the holidays. I mean for school aged children it is not as if the hours in the contract could be honoured during the holidays anyway (3.15-6.15 four days a week). I don't think she emphasised her policy either, but the she was using a standard contract. And yes of course we should have read it more thoroughly. You live and learn I guess. We'll probably not use a childminder again.

Yes, I am pissed. I too have been self-employed and/or employed contractors for most of my adult life. Through experience I have learned that you must always work out the terms in advance and in writing and have both parties sign off on them. And once that's done, you stick to it. I can't stand people whinging about paying for services that they have knowingly contracted to pay for. If you had a problem with the contract, OR you didn't understand it, the point to have queried it was BEFORE you signed it. Especially considering you are someone who is used to dealing with contracts and who should understand the significance of signing one. Wouldn't you be irritated if one of your clients started complaining about your fee being too high after you had performed the services exactly as you had contracted to do? And if you think you should be paid for your holidays, then write it into your next contract!