People still not aware of the childminding rules?

[Ripeberry]

Hi, just been on the AIBU thread and its amazing how many people still don't realise that if they look after a friend's child for more than 2hrs a day then they are breaking the law.
It seems quite common for friends to have each others kids for the whole day and return the favour and not think anymore about it.
Why are we busting a gut, trying to become registered?
Just really annoys me as we have to do SO MUCH now this EYFS is coming in and potential customers are just doing everyting ad-hoc.

Great, let's now indulge in CM-bashing, shall we HappyMummy?

Oblomov, you've done nothing wrong its just a one-off. It just got me wondering thats all.
Its such a grey area this "payment in kind" that its interesting to get a discussion going.
Tried to ring OFSTED to clarify but they're impossible to get through to
Not trying to start an argument, just wondering why OFSTED is so strict about it.

im a libertarian so i am in favour of less law rather than more

and i think the piecemeal knee jerk way that some of this child care legislation has been put together is prety poor

i would like to see a policy brought forward for dismantling some of the crappy laws that take away from the community

Quite, Zippi

Well I think the OFSTED line is that if you make it a grey area, then you risk lots of people doing childminding services and then claiming just to be doing a friend a favour when asked why they don't pay taxes/have insurance etc etc.

It is a profession, and a vital one, and as such has to be regulated like any other.

I suspect that in a case where someone genuinely was just doing a friend a favour, they wouldn't prosecute, even assuming they heard about it. But if someone is providing childminding services for money, OFSTED need the law behind them to come down hard on lack of insurance etc.

They need the law to be black and white to avoid people taking advantage of a grey area, iyswim.

HappyMummyOfOne I have been doing this job for almost 30 years, I do not have children at home, my child is 30 and married and a Father himself.

I have a Degree in Early years education, and a NNEB and as well as working a 50 hour week with the children I do training and paper work at weekends and evenings.

I do this job as it WAS my career of choice, as it is for a great many CMs.

the law of course rarely is black and white

of course - but their application of it can be less black and white than it sounds, iyswim

most childminders are young mothers tho

or mothers of yopung children or both

I regularly look after friends children, normally when their childminder is ill etc.

I don't accept payment for it, but quite often my friends will then drop off a bunch of flowers or a bottle of wine, or if I have had them alot, one friend takes me out to the pics or something.

If I said 'sorry, but i can't accept your gift as it would constitute payment, and I am not registered so can't be paid', they would think I was nuts, and probably be offended.

People are aware but choose to ignore it. If one of my trusted friends was to mind ds I would choose to ignore it too.

what ever is said on her i cant and dont belive it is illegal for a child to go and play at a friends house and for the child to the go back to play at the same friends house. (or even at a different friends house) (wether its for fun or to help mum out while she has her hair cut / goes to Dr / goes shopping, or any other scenario!)

I just CANT imaine MPs and the memebers of the house of lords passing a LAW that makes children being cared for at a friends house illegal....

at a friends they are not being educated... they are just playing as almost all children do

Just wandering back over to the payment issue - the wording in the Children Act is:

"a person acts as a child minder if he looks after one or more children under the age of eight, for reward"

There are then exemptions such as for relatives, for less than two hours a day, it's in the child's own home, etc. Reward has been interpreted as money or "payment in kind". No one is going to look at a bottle of wine as "payment" for having someone's kids for a morning!

The payment in kind bit is mostly aimed at picking up people who exchange childcare. For example I'll have your kid on Mondays and Tuesdays while you work, and you have mine on Wednesdays and Thursdays in exchange. That isn't just doing a favour - that's a long running informal childcare arrangement.

I also get very annoyed when people are doing it for cash in hand, regularly, and not being registered but although I'm a childminder myself, I actually think it's crazy to have such strict rules about helping out with friends children on odd occasions (I think there is quite a difference between the two).

The mum of an old mindee has taken ds1 out with them on an outing for the day when I didn't have mindee during school holidays. I didn't pay her of course but said I'd be happy to do the same some time (when childminding numbers permit). Now I suppose that if I then do this, it's classed as 'reward' and therefore illegal but they are very very rare odd occasions where we're doing it so our little ones have a friend to enjoy the outing with.

I also think a lot of parents who don't know much about childminding, don't actually know about these rules anyway. I certainly didn't until I was registering as a childminder 3 and half years ago!

As for person who sued her 'friend' in that situation - how disgusting and sad