Is my childminder ripping me off?

[Katie0907]

She wants me to pay her the full rate for time she was off sick. Is this right? I'm annoyed as I had to take time off work and lose pay.

But if you are comparing childminders to other self employed people then surely that's what they do. A plumber does not charge £4 an hour. If all childminders charged this then parents would have to pay it.Of course in my ideal worl the government should pay parents to look after their own children, then mothers would not have to go out to work at all. I don't get paid for my own children, nor do I get childcare vouchers. My way would mean that mums might only have to work one or two days a week

But you don't use a plumber for up to 9 hours a day, up to 5 days a week, for 52 weeks of the year. If you price yourself too high then parents will just find alternative childcare, or will have to stop working. You say "If all childminders charged this then parents would have to pay it" - no they wouldn't especially if they only earn £6 or £7 an hour themselves. They would have to seek alternative childcare or start using unregistered childcare.

I don't think you are comparing like...

A nanny is (generally speaking) an employee... they work for one family (sometimes two in a share) and the parents negotiate the salary they want to pay. As an employee, a nanny is entitled to statutory employment rights. A nanny's wage is not reflective of the number of children for whom they care... it is a plus point of a having a nanny, as they can care for up to 6 children (typical insurance limit) for a fixed hourly wage (I expect range to be £7-£12 gross depending on area).

A childminder is self-employed and can dictate their own terms, including how much they want to be paid for providing their service. A childminder can take many children, often up to 10 children (NCMA insurance limit I believe). In theory, if that childminder was charging £4 per hour, per child... then with 10 children present they have £40 per hour income.

I don't feel it is right for a childminder to charge when they are ill - but nothing to stop them agreeing a contract that does include a clause meaning that they do get paid. They run their own business, and can decide their own terms as they like. If they make themselves uncompetitive, then customers (parents) will use other providers.

Most parents get childcare vouchers towards their childcare, which can't be used with unregistered childcarers. It's supply and demand.Have you stopped buying petrol because you think the price is too high? I think all parents will side with your line of thinking and all childcarers will side with me. W e can't win - we shouldn't ask for too higher pay, but can't have sick pay or holiday pay. And you're right - we aren't plumbers, we look after your most precious belonging, and we should have the rights everyone else have.

Nannynick...
Nannies do dictate their wage..if the wages offered are low,they can choose not to take the job, like anyone else in the world. I used to be a nanny, living in as well as a daily nanny,so I do understand.
Also,childminders could charge whatever they like,but they don't because, as said before, people wouldnt pay it. My point is that to cover non payment for sickness and hols, childminders could put up the hourly rate.

"Most parents get childcare vouchers towards their childcare" - surely that is a very generalised comment, and probably something you don't have the figures for to support.

Parent's who are self-employed don't get childcare vouchers. Parents who are employee's don't get childcare vouchers if their organisation does not want to provide them.

I don't see how Childcare Vouchers is connected with paying for time off sick... is there a connection?

Aha, this is the thread you were talking about leo69.

So I am interested in your response to my situation. I use a childminder. I am also self employed. If my children are ill, I can't work. But I still have to pay my cm (& quite right too)
I don't get sick pay, or holiday pay. I have to juggle my finances to cover both - and being able to pay my cm for those times as well (& in my industry it's standard to be paid 30 days in arrears - bet you wouldn't like that much!)

BUT being SE is my choice - so I have to put up with the bads as well as the (many advantages)

Why should cms be any different?

Oh, and as NN points out, no childcare vouchers for me either

of cousre i don't have figures, I'm not a politician ! I can only go by what my childminding friends tell me, as you can tell me the parents side.

Leo69, I'm getting confused as to what point you are trying to make.

Are you trying to say that Childminders should charge for days they are off sick?
Or are you saying that they should factor in sick pay when calculating what hourly rate they will charge?

Anyway, are you saying that childminders who think it is unfair that we don't get sick/hols pay should give it up?
In that case 'funny' should give up work and do a job she hates so she can get sick/hols pay....job done

Ah, no wouldn't do that for the world - I love my job and I love being SE. I love the freedom, and being my own boss.

But I am aware there are some disadvantages. I manage them.

I guess my point is that, like me, cms can choose how they charge, and what they charge. But we all have to work within the constraints of what 'the market' thinks we are worth.

My point in the beginning of this thread is that childminders should get occasional sick days and holidays paid.But I find it unfair that poeple think I should change jobs if I don't like it. Also I was making a point that childminders COULD up their fees to incorperate sick/hol pay like most self employed do.

That's it...the market thinks childminders aren't worth much at all. I hate being self emloyed.I can't be ill, I can't take occasional days off to go to school performances for my own children,I can't be included towards a mortgage because I don't have an accountant, all sorts of problems.

Leo69 - If a childminder wants to charge for periods when they don't provide their service (such as if they are sick, or on holiday), then that is up to them.
If other childminders in their local area didn't make those same charges, then parents may not select the childminder who did (all other things being equal).

Some parents I would have though will choose on price. My sister has recently decided against using a childminder (very well respected childminder, who has been providing her service for over 18 years) based on COST. The nursery at her work is cheaper. The point being, that some parents will choose based on cost.

Most parents choose on cost.But why pay less for a lesser service. The other childminder could be perfect,and she could have lots of problems with the one she has chosen.

Going to start using a CM in Sept so I am a bit confused. Locally the CMs cover for each other when they go on holiday which is great - so does that mean I will have to pay my CM and the one providing the cover, ie. twice?

I think that childcare generally is under paid. I've worked in the sector for a number of years now and I'll never get rich being a childcare provider. But I do get to spend nice sunny days outdoors - this afternoon I sat under a tree with the children for whom I care, watching rabbits playing (rabbits about 10-15 yards away - had to keep the children quiet, else the rabbits did a runner!).

If you need an accountant, Brian is good I hear.

Nannynick..just looked at your profile...I love torey hayden books too, read a fair few.

Heated - It will depend on what the contract says. Generally I think that childminders don't charge when they are on holiday, so I would expect that you will only be paying the childminder providing the cover. But do check the contract.

Sounds good, it's rained here today!

Heated...you will have to ask the childminder that at the interview.What i do is try and tell the parents asap,and we take the same holiday weeks together. You might have to pay when you go on holiday, because the cm is still available.

I would like to shake the hand of the childminder who has 10 kids and earns £40 an hour!

i feel that childminders shouldnt charge when they are ill, as they are providing a service would you still pay the window cleaner if your windows were not cleaned that week as he was off sick??? pay the milkman for no milk when he is off sick??

If parents/child are sick and the child can not go to the minder then fair enough child minder charges.

So what if the childminder catches chicken pox off one of the minded children? The minder loses all his/her wages and the other children's parents need to get alternative care.

Not all parents choose on cost - I chose the most expensive cm I saw, because I thought she was the best (£5.50p/h).

Totally agree that childcare in general is underpaid and undervalued, btw. Like many generally female caring professions