Hot meals / cooking in cm registered house

[Nigellapleasecomedinewithme]

Just picked up ds4 and cm distraught sayingshe can't provide a hot meal due to some changes and getting registerd with environmental health etc etc and .

Is this right? She's all registered and inspected and a lovely family house. Has a dog usually kept behind a gate to the 'open' kitchen (thats also an issue ). Also no cooking of cakes etc which of course they little ones love to do.

Is this right? Another stupid stupid dumb rule - what happened to parents rights and ability to select suitable childcare. Stupid nanny state .

Can any other cms advise us what to do - will be writing to our mp if this is right!!!!!!

It is now suggested that we (childminders) register with the local environmental health department. It is just a quick phone call and fill in a form. Some cm then get a quick visit from EHO others in diferent counties dont get a visit at all. That is it. It is still perfectly ok to cook hot meals and make cakes etc with kids as far as I know - I am still doing it anyway!

EHO may have advice re storage, prep of food, dog in kitchen etc but as far as I know have no actual 'power' to tell you what to do.

Hope that helps.

The EHO told one of the cm's round my way that if children bring their own packed lunch with them and then get ill (food poisoning) the cm could still be held responsible as they were the ones that actually 'gave' the child the food. So, if a yoghurt or egg sandwich or something is out of date but we do not know, we are still liable.

From that then, the cm cooking a meal in their own home is better as at least they know what they are cooking!

We are still allowed to cook for mindees here. And at the moment, registering with the EHO is not compulsory, although probably will be soon so I really should get my act together and sort the form out!

i registered and never had a visit or anything and i would fight to hell and back if someone told me not to cook for my little ones ..what a load of baloney..tell your childminder to ignore it and carry on being as lovely as she is

As SB says, getting pack lunches solves little. I was told you have to register whether you provide meals or not. Because of storage and preparation of baby milks, parent provided meals, snacks and soft drinks. Because its handled locally by Environmental Health Departments there are different procedures and cms are being told different things in different areas.

The Environmental Health told me at one stage I would have to stop providing meals unless I installed 3 sinks in my kitchen. The NCMA got the FSA involved and its all sorted. If your cm has been told she can't provide meals by her EHO I suggest she contacts NCMA - even if she's not a member - they asked a while back to be informed of any problems people are having especially if they're asked to do anything impractical or expensive. And not providing meals is impractical when you are caring for children all day.

www.bromleycma.org.uk/food_hygiene.html

Thanks for all the advice - my cm and another that she works closely with both called North Wilts EHO about this - apparently if they don't do hot fod they are classed as low rsik but if provide hot meals then they say a visit is mandatory. That's what is really png off my minder - she doesn't want someone in her home telling them you can't have this, do that - example of 3 sinks above!! Seems they put in loads of barriers or make it difficult for the cm to act as the parents would!! Seems I could have a child from 0-5 feed them rubbish in my own home and let them wath tv 7-7 and then no-one can say anything!!! Just seems cm are being asked to do more and more which seems to be putting them off and they provide a much better service imo than nurseries etc. I'm very happy with what they do and tha includes organising more play and 'events' than they would get at home (I'm sure!!). I just don't think she wants the hassle of 'another' inspection etc and what it could potentially lead to.....

I agree we should all have good standards but the parents should also inspect and be happy with whats provided and if not go elsewhere - this is just so stooooopid and not much common sense.

I know EHO in North Wilts have taken AGES to close down some really filthy restaurants can't they focus on that as their real job. Ok give guidelines to follow but thats what any domestic kitchen should do!!!

After reading this I phoned my local council in Berkshire and was told I shouldn't be preparing so cooking food for mindee's. Panick set in as I care for 4 under 5's and was told I coulnd't even warn a bottle of milk up for them. After a tiny rant it appears that as I've just signed up for a Hygience course in October that I am covered and continue business as normal. How studid is this!! I wouldn't mind but no one has actually told any local CM's that this is now compulsary!!

Looks like each council does things differently - I did find a link between the OFSTED and the relevant food act;

209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:CtDfxkffDiIJ:preview.ofsted.gov.uk/assets/Internet_Content/Shared_Cont ent/EYD/protocols/environmentalhealthdepts.doc+childcare+and+environmental+health&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3 &gl=uk

Does this apply to playschools as well??
Because if that's true then they can't have parent helpers preparing the snacks anymore as most of them don't hold a hygene certificate.
There is no way our pre-school kitchen could have 3 sinks in it, there's not enough room to swing a cat in there!
I know they are trying to keep children safe and all that, but how on earth can they deem a CM's house more dangerous for handling food than all those burger vans on the side of the road with no running water??
Beggars belief, really does!

And why should a cm's house be any different to a parents own home? That's the point of a cm surely, a home from home environment!

This is from the N.Wilts EH web site;

This is a legal requirement under the Food Premises (Registration) Regulations 1991 and applies to most types of food businesses, including catering businesses run from home and mobile or temporary premises such as stalls and burger vans.

Any premise (fixed or mobile) which are used for the purpose of a food business for a total of 5 or more days in a five week period, should be registered. This requirement includes domestic premises except those where only bed and breakfast is provided in not more than 3 bedrooms. Other exemptions include places run by voluntary or charitable organisations and used only be them, if no food (except tea, coffee, biscuits or similar) are stored there.

A mobile food business should be registered at the address at which the unit is normally garaged.

There is no charge for registration and registration cannot be refused. It is not subject to periodic renewal.

So YES all food establishments have to register by law. BUT then it seems a bit of a grey area. Some EHO say if no hot food then low risk so inspection not needed. Others may say differently e.g. hygeine certifcates ok etc etc. It's all very confusing and usual buearacracy where a one rule fits all makes day to day practilities for the small 'non business' type organisations a right PITA . Maybe we need a Mumsnet type campaign similar to what Jamie O / Hugh FW have for their causes. This is dumd dumb dumb - a potential opportunity for CMs to do some simple baking and provide what we all do in our own homes is now TOO RISKY and

But a CM is a professional and must adhere to certain standards.
I'm just starting the CM registeration process and it's just AMAZING how much paperwork you need!

Oh and here's another gem from the NW EHO - if you do need to make changes to your proprty to accomodate the registration / approvals;

Remember you may need planning permission to alter your premises. so they get you possibly with a planning fees!! aarggghhhh....

Others have fought it but its the inconsistency / lack of common sense that gets me - as sb77 says use their resources to inspect real crap food places.

Maybe they will only allow us to make smoothies and rice crispie cakes? That don't require cooking.

Maybe not rice crispie cakes. You have to boil the water to melt the chocolate which prob counts as cooking right?? [hmmm]

I have a cunning plan, why not do an educational thing outdoors with the kids and a camping stove and cook outdoors...you are not using the kitchen..No?

the council i'm under 'bracknell forest' require all cms to be registered with eho and they then decide if they need to see you. also bf requires me to attend a food hygeien course, which i have just done and passed , having done it my personla opion is that all cm's shoulhd do it as it made me really look at how i do things for my family and well as mindees.

I don't have an issue with them being registered with the EHO and as a preference to do a food hygeine course (which ain't that hard - as I have also done it). TBH - its all pretty much common sense. BUT what are the rules / guidance on inspection, what is high risk food preperation in your own home? MY CMs concern is there are more rules / inspections and possible stoopid recommendations (like thew 3 sinks!!) that just makes it a real hassle. They should be supported to do their main job which is a child minder. They are not there to provide loads of food to the general public. There are limited resources in the councils - shouldn't they focus on the real businesses out there and the dodgy vans / poor hygeine of quite a few restaurants / burger places etc etc. I've found all the cms we have used are always caring and want to do the best for their mindees and it just seems the gv't isn't really supporting this. Bit like teachers also being driven away by too many changes / other crap and good teachers in the class room are being driven out . We just don't seem to get our priorities right or know whats common sense anymore - we have a nanny state that keeps fiddling in everything and not actually making much difference despite spending huge sums of money. look at how many pupils leave primary not being able to read & write