Opinions pelase from those who work in (or use) childcare.

[LynetteScavo]

I took DD (2years) to the creche at our local health club, intending to leave her there for an hour. (I was intending to leave her for an hour, a couple of times a week)

There was one (not very talkative) member of staff with; one crying baby (who he was trying to comfort), two small boys of about 2 years, and a girl of about 4/5 years.

DD still needs help to go to the loo, and I just didn't think it would be fair on DD or the creche worker (or the other children) for me to leave her there.

The other member of staff (the creche manager) was in the next room with the older children.

Any opinions on whether the ratios sound OK, if I'm over fussy for the care I expect for my DD welcome. Thanks.

I know the ratios for babies are 1:3 so if there are any babies in amongst the group with the untalkative guy, the max number of children should be 3. I would just mention your concerns and ask about their policies. As long as it's not criticising, they're probably used to parents with questions and should be forthcoming with info

The carer should have been on a 1:3 ratio as a baby under the age of 2 was with her - the 2 year old boys could have been on a 1:4 ratio so that would habve been the 2 boys and the 2 older girls which would normally be on a 1:8 ratio. Is it possible that another nursery nurse was just getting a bottle, had gone to the toilet, had popped out - if not speak to the manager of the creche and manager of the centre and if not ofsted

From September this year (2008), a crèche may not even need to be registered - so not sure what happens then about staff to child ratio.

Ofsted published a document, ref 080043 in April saying that a facility meeting the following, is exempt from compulsory registration:
"care for children for four hours or less each day and the care is for the convenience of parents who intend to remain on the premises where the provision occurs or within its immediate locality. In this type of provision
there is no long-term commitment to provide care for children; examples include a shoppers crèche or a crèche attached to a sports centre or an exhibition where children do not attend every day."

Until September 2008, the old National Standards would apply:
1 adult to 3 children under 2.
1 adult to 4 children aged 2.
1 adult to 8 children aged 3-7.

My view is that the member of staff with the 4 children was probably just about in ratio... but it's hard to work out, as you don't know the exact age of each child, plus there is no information given in the National Standards (from what I can tell) with regard to splitting the ratio across age groups.

How I would calculate the ratios:
4 year old = 3/24
2 year old = 6/24 x 2 = 12/24
baby = 8/24
So that makes 23/24. So in ratio by that calculation method - but only just.
Taking on your child, would push over the ratio, in my view. Ofsted however can see ratios differently, and may have counted the manager as being in ratio for that age group, even though they were in another room.

how come childminder's don't have to stick to that ratio?

wow - thanks nannynick!

Ofsted are thinking of not registering creche povision????

Does this mean the staff would not have to be CRB checked?

I know people who leave their DC's in the creche for a couple of hours a day, almost every day! Presumably decent places would choose to be registered though?

C/Mers can have

1 under 1
3 under 5 (so including that 1 under 1)
6 under 8 (including that 3 under 5)

so say a 6mo, a 2yo & a 4yo, plus a 6yo & 2 7yos

on Nick calc

6mo = 8/24
2yo = 6/24
4yo = 3/24
6yo = 3/24
7yos = 3/24 x 2 = 6/24

So total ratio 26/24.......hmmm that doesn't work does it

Nick have I done it wrong? Or does it not work for C/Mers?

btw is this your own invention or something mixed age groups use?

Can't do the same calc for childminders.

I would expect a good crèche to maintain the same standards as at present. They may even choose to register under voluntary scheme.
A crèche which operates for more than 4 hours a day though is not exempt from full registration, from what I can tell - so I expect a lot of crèche's would still fall under Ofsted compulsory registration.

That's a shame