Advice from child minders needed please - should I report this?

[philmassive]

Hi All. I need your thoughts on this question, please!

There is an experienced CM who collects from my DS's school who goes home some days (it seems to be Friday in particular) with 12 children. 3 of them are under school age, she arrives with them too. The rest are a mixture of ages from reception upwards. I don't know for sure but I would say the majority of them are infant age, maybe 2 or 3 are junior school age. She is very clearly going well over her numbers and there is no sign of her having any help, there is definitely nobody helping her with the school pick up, which I find a bit hair raising.

My question is should I just keep my nose out? Or should something be said to OFSTED? I know that she has been a CM for 20 odd years, and in my mind I would argue that most of these children's parents know that there are lots of children at her home when they pick up and don't mind about it. But I also know it's against the rules.

I should also say that I am a CM myself but choose only to do it on a small scale (1 or 2 children at a time) for my own children's sake, so it's not jealousy of her earnings that are prompting me to ask!

Please, what would you do?

Report.

sorry not a CM, but as a mother I would be horrified if I found out a CM was doing this and putting my children at risk.

It sounds like she is over her numbers. She would only be allowed 3 under 5's maybe 4 if she had special permission from ofsted.

Although any children that are over 8 are no included in your allocated numbers. Not sure how ofsted limit this though.

I have two children 4 and 8, and am registered for 4 other children (2 under five, 2 over). That's really as many as I fell I can manage.

I don't think anyone, experienced or not could manage 12

I think I would report it if I were you.

sorry - not included (not no)!!

and feel not fell - doh!

Report it.

How would you feel if something awful happened (road accident, for example) and you hadn't reported it?

report - she is way out of line

How does she get them home? Does she have a minibus? or does she walk them, that would be horrific!
Some other parents must have noticed!

Well, you all seem to be saying what I expected really, just wanted to be sure that it wasn't out of order to report her.

Ripeberry - she does walk them home, I think she lives on the estate where the school is so I don't think it's far, but that isn't the point! I would have thought that other people must have noticed but maybe aren't aware about the numbers limit. I live in hope that someone else will have said something too, when I ring up, so that it doesn't just seem like me being jealous or unkind.

Anna & Turniphead - that is exactly my worry, that someone would have an accident. There is no way she can control them all, it's just not possible.

Squiffy - I'm glad to hear the response from a non-CM, I would be horrified if it was my child too.

Thanks, all. Off to ring now.

HIya, are you SURE they are all with her?, not just tagging along as they walk round corner etc??i ask because as a cm, on occasion i have had 7 with me (my own dd, 5 more between 1 and 8 inkeeping with my ratios- and a ten yr old mindee..AND THEN the 10yr olds friends(who walk home alone) sometimes walk along with us till we get to the corner, i used to flap but now i think well these children are with me, those are not, their parents should be with them not me, so i keep my eye on my own and my mindees...i have heard comments from mothers behind me saying "how many has she got with her!?"...even when ive got the 7 im NOT over my ratio's, but you ARE only allowed up to a certain amount of over 8's, and you must ensure those numbers dont hinder your care for the younger children, which by the sounds of it, it would and she can in no way look after them ALL(if they are all with her)..would be interesteing to find out tho!

Thats a good point PC.

I am registered for more children as work with another CM and an assistant. I walk to school with 8 most days...2x 10 yrs, 1 x 9 yrs, 2 in my double buggy, 1 pre schooler (4 yrs) who walks holding onto the buggy, and 2 x 5 yr olds who walk hand in hand in front of me and hold the buggy when we cross roads. I am within my numbers, of course, at all times: I guess I would talk to her, just to check if you have mis understood.... it is out of line if she is breaking the rules, but you might be surprised and find out that the younger looking ones are in fact over 8....are they un ruly when they walk, or unsafe? My gang walk beautifully, and we take road safety very seriously

Ooh, now you've given me more to think about!

PC - the reason that I think they are all with her is that she seems to have a meeting point where they all congregate before walking home, but that's not to say that their friends and so on don't hang around and tag along too. FWIW they do look like they are all very determinedly waiting for her, vague I know, but true.

thirtysoon - I obviously cannot say for certain how old they all are, either. I am a chicken with regards to talking to her, I only vaguely know her as I saw her on the EYFS course, I don't want her to think I am being bitchy (which I suppose I am for asking about reporting her in the first place) and I also suspect that she wouldn't admit to being over numbers even if she was.

Oh, dither, dither.

Maybe keep an eye on her, and try to spot where the kids come from....do they all walk out of the infants? If so, more likely to be under 8's....detective work required here I think! It seems silly of someone to publicly be working out of ratio...especially with 20 yrs experience! Other people must have noticed too. Well done for raising this, cos if she is over her numbers then she should be reported.

It's still worth reporting - what's the worst that can happen? Ofsted will want to investigate it - they won't swoop down and cancel her registration based just on your call! If she is with an assistant or a bunch of the kids are not actually with her then she can explain that to Ofsted and it'll all be fine.

One childminder and 12 kids seems pretty much beyond any legal reasonable explaination to me though.

You are actually allowed 12 children as a CM,

3 under 5
3 between 5 & 8
and up to six over 8

any more and you are not covered by insurance.

I used to have 10, 3 under 5, 1 six year old and 6 over eights, all girls and all 9/10.

I have now

2x1 year old
1x2 year old
2x5 year old
1x6 year old
2x8 year old
1x10 year old.

Shoshe do you have a temporary variation for the 2 x under 1yos or do you work with an assistant as well? I thought that generally you could only have 2 x under 1yos working alone if siblings were involved, or if it was only for a very short period of time?

Sorry ignore me - just realised you were talking about 1 year olds, not under 1 year olds... That's still a whole bunch though!

Squirrel they are both over 1 actually they are 19 months and 17 months now.

But yes have had two under 1's before now, it is usually for a fairly short period, as most dont come to me till at least 6 months, so usually for 3 to 6 months at a time.