Help! My not-very-good-au pair has asked for a reference!

[cheapskatemum]

As I understand it, references have to be positive, but I don't want to pass on a turkey. I know there's lots of lawyers & Mums with more experience than me out there, what can I do?

Typically, he's asked me today if I'll give the reference, and they might be phoning...today.

My understanding from internet research (which of course could be all wrong) is that you must give a FAIR reference, so you CAN mention good and bad, as long as you can defend in court the veracity of everything you say.

My friend was in this situation re her ex-employee (in a small company) and was advised by HR that the only thing she should say was: "X is not eligible for re-employment here".

Thank you SO much, that's really helpful. There are some things he's ok at - the things I've spent hours showing him and reminding him about! I definitely have lots of evidence about the rest!

may be a bit easier if they phone - you won't have anything in writing and the new employers may be able to tell form your tone of voice how you really feel about some of the issues?

Why was he a poor AP? (You don't have to answer on here!)

EG my last useless (toilet blocking) AP didn't do things as I liked which was a) annoying when I am the MB and b) indicative of her general attitude BUT, as someone on that thread pointed out, what does it matter if she doesn't button the shirts up? I did to me but not everyone feels the same.

So were his useless points actually lack of skills/abilities or a lack of respect for your authority - the latter being harder to fix than the former.

Sorry, I'm not much help am I?

MarmadukeScarlet - surely it mattered that your AP didn't do shirt buttons up because you as employer wanted them done up (and presumably you had asked her to do so - obviously you cannot expect an AP to mindread).

You are paying the AP to do a job to your standards, not to the AP's standards.

Yes Anna, she showed a general lack of respect for my authority/ ability to complete tasks that I had requested NOT a lack of skill in doing them.

As stated in my earlier post to OP she needs to assess if his uselessness actually meant a lack of skills/abilities or a lack of respect for her authority - the latter being harder to fix than the former.

IMHO you can teach someone how to clean/iron properly IF they are will to accept your advice/coaching/instructions, however if someone cannot accept this you will struggle to be able to teach them anything!

You owe a duty of care to her future employer to be absolutely honest about your AP. You cannot lie and say she was good if she wasn't. Besides, how would you feel if you took on a new AP on the basis of a good reference and the reference was misleading?

You're on very dodgy ground if you give a good reference that isn't deserved.

Sorry - "him". ooops.

I'm sorry, but if I think that someone was rubbish at their job (and I'm not saying that's what you think about your AP in question...), then I owe it to whoever calls me for a reference to tell them that. We had a USELESS maternity nurse for a few weeks after the birth of ds and although I probably should have just sacked her, I couldn't face it as I decided that fairly useless irritating help was better than none (and certainly better than forking out for agency fees etc). I gave her a very factual and neutral reference ("x worked for us between the following dates and her duties included...", and also slipped in things like "she very quickly made herself at home", hoping that potential employers could read between the lines. When they called for a chat, I'm afraid I said I couldn't possibly recommend her for the following reasons.... (blah blah blah).

I don't know if I was laying myself open to legal action from her, but I would have defended everything I said in court if it came to that. As it was, she eventually got back in touch w me by email, asked me why I had given such negative feedback, and I explained why and apologised for not having been more honest with her at the time, but just after birth of ds etc I wasn't up to any kind of confrontation. I also said that if she wanted to discuss any of my comments in a constructive way, I would be very happy to do so, but in the meantime maybe it would be best if my details were not passed out for verbal references.

She never got back to me.

Do think it is important to be honest. Unless someone is fairly useless, it's good to stress the positive points and then if necessary, you can mention any negative points as areas that he/she might need some help with. As am employer, I would prefer to hear that nanny x was great with the kids, but a bit rubbish at loading the dishwasher, than to be told that they are perfect in every way (which no-one is).

Yes, I agree. It's so difficult though, with household chores - I do think that an awful lot of people in domestic jobs already feel like the lowest of the low (and are a bit resentful of their employer's authority), and then when they are asked to do the job to a higher specification than they naturally do, their feelings are shot to pieces.

Which is not an excuse (I cannot cope with cleaners who don't/can't work to my standards) but it involves treating APs and other domestic employees very gently. Personally, I think it's a very hard position to have real authority in, just because you need to be so careful of the employee's ego.

With my last, emotionally fragile cleaner, I just didn't have the guts to come out and tell her she wasn't good enough at her job - she would have been destroyed. I just let things cool off until she resigned ("because I wasn't loving enough" she said. Too right.)

MS, I well remember your battle with the buttons - the least I can do is answer your query! Actually, I haven't even dared let him near the iron because he's so accident-prone and slapdash. Consequently, I have to get up early on Sunday am & iron for about 2 hours, all the while thinking "Why have a dog and bark too?", but DH won't let me outscource it (& TBF he irons his workshirts).

I get the feeling he does lack respect for authority as when I impart information (& I've given up bothering unless it is important)he greets everything with a bemused smile, as if to say "Oh, ok, if I must". Competence-wise, he's broken things, such as a glass jug, by filling it with boiling water, missed English lesson (paid for by us) through not following instructions how to get there. The general pattern is, I tell him something, so he does it. I then have to remind him the next time it needs doing, he doesn't understand (English is basic, and hasn't improved much)I show him again, he does it. I mean things such as bringing the dustbins back in after rubbish collection day and making a packed lunch. It would be much simpler for me to just do it.

He has the most detailed contract I've ever had to write, because if it wasn't written down, he didn't do it. So, basically, lazy. Also, very cavalier about family's possessions - would use DS's Playstation 3 for hours, without asking permission, then forget to turn it off.

Other things I accept responsibility for, DSs are very sporty & I assumed that, being male, he would be too (all 3 previous male au pairs were). However this one "Not know football", so getting him to play with DSs during the hour between them & me coming home from school has been an effort. I now know to ask about hobbies before offering job!

Agree with beaulocks

Anna I am not a bossy type and always go through things carefully with APs, very mindful that many consider such jobs below them. I never ask them to do the very unpleasant household tasks - dirty laundry, washing nappies, emptying bins or compost crock. So when I say 'respect my authority' I do not mean I throw my weight around.

CSM goodness, he does sound rather wet and immature - how old is he and how long has he been with you? I now ALWAYS ask about hobbies and how active they are, as my two are real outdoorsy types who have been too energetic for the more sedentry type AP - my Parisian was most unimpressed as we live in the sticks and have lots of mud!

MS - ditto regarding sticks and mud! I would not consider a Parisian, despite having been pretty desperate in the past!

He's 24. Thankfully we started with a 3 month contract (now coming to an end) as he wanted to work in Glasgow, where his sister is & this gave him a window to look for a job there, but he hasn't, hoping we'd renew his contract here. However, sis doesn't seem keen on this. Reading between the lines, I think his general attitude lost him their last job, where they were an au pair couple.

Some things to read about Bad/Negative References:
Can an employer give a bad reference? (BusinessZone.co.uk)
Can a worker sue for a bad reference? (bbc.co.uk)
Writing Student References (ucl.ac.uk)
How to write a reference (personneltoday.com)

Thank you very much all who posted here, you've been really helpful, I'll let you know how I get on! Not sure I'll know how he gets on, as he's supposed to be going home for 2 week holiday next week & I assume new job is meant to start after that.

I took a reference for an AP who was already in Uk. References were really good but certainly didn't match up to the AP when she arrived. She was awful. Wish I'd been told.

I write one paragraph of strong points and one paragraph of development needs. Things like "Au pair X would benefit by doing XYZ". Sounds constructive while being quite clear about where the problems lie.

From my professional understanding, you can not legally give bad references - especially written. I take references up on individuals with my job and if the candidate's referee goes quiet or says something like "I can't comment on that" then one can quickly read between the lines!

Good luck