Am I right in thinking nannies are so expensive because so many people don't pay the tax/NI?

[1dilemma]

OK hunt still going on a bit halfhearted because our ideal would be September.

Every single nanny I have contacted (even for Sept. start) has basically said that their NI/tax isn't paid, hence I'm guessing thier employers are happier to pay them what they would be paying gross.

I'm sure you're all paying tax etc and I intend to but I would value comments and some suggestions as to how to find one that does 'want' to pay tax.

I think the norm is to pay the tax. Well, maybe ot the babysitting/extra hours part.

I'm being quoted around 90-100 pounds a day (before I tell the anything about the job ) which I think means nannies are on around 35K a year, that's a lot of money. It also doesn't seem to vary with qualifications/experience in the way I expected.

(Live-out)

Wow. I don't know - we're paying full tax and NI on a £72 a day net salary (live out) which I think is high - I believed what she asked for on the phone. Given the time again I would offer a bit less because I am paying her more than other people around here. She is, however, fully qualified, experienced and excellent at her job, plus the job is only 1 year long so in a way I feel I'm compensating her for job insecurity.

I have not come across a proper nanny who isn't having their stuff paid at all. What I have come across is people paying a nanny a low official salary and giving her the rest in cash. I don't know how you'd start bringing this up if you wanted to do it...

I find it so weird that nobody talks about nannies at a monthly gross figure like any other job - it's all hours, days, weeks, net. Is it to conceal how much it hurts??

Yes I would say so (I'm in SW London) it seems to have shot up. Less than 1 yr ago we had one who wanted £70 gross now they all seem to want 90-100 net.
My only hope is that they get credit crunched as much as the rest of us

I am in south london and charge £8 per hour. I find that whenever parents WANT to pay tax/NI, they take it from £8 instead of on top of. So i end up getting £6 per hour.
I cant affort to work for that

Where in SW london are you and what are you looking for?

I am in Herts and charge from £12 gross an hour but I only work part time, temp and am self empolyed.

Nanny wages have gone a bit ridiculous though

NJ link

Nannies expect a good wage just because of the area they are working not and not because of their own experience or qualifications. I think it is shocking that they are only worried about their net salary and have no idea what the gross salary is!

I am in outer sw london and got lots of nannies not wanting to have the tax paid at interviews.

You need to specify gross wage in your blurb in your ad (so that they know that's what you are going to do in advance). I didn't put pay on my ad, I waited for nannies to contact me but did mention I would pay gross.

I think the figures you are being quoted sound about right. It is FARKING expensive but if you think about it, it is one person's salary that they live off.

Although it has got to the stage round here where nannies seem to earn more than teachers.

In my experience employers have always deducted my tax and NI for nanny jobs - that is for jobs which are permanent. Temp jobs are another matter, and really I feel it should be the agency which operates the payroll, in the same way it works when doing temping in nurseries.
It's not just full-time positions... I've had a 3-day per week nanny position and the parents operated full PAYE.
Perhaps it is something to do with your location... too many people who are prepared to accept their bosses not deducting their tax.

£90-£100 per day, for live-out is not unusual I feel. I'm currently negotiating a contract for a new job which is paying that amount Gross. I suspect the figures nannies are giving you are NET though, but in London area, then that is quite possible.

Cost of living must be having some affect - a live-out nanny would have bills to pay, be that rent, council tax, gas/electric, running a car, etc. So if housing costs come down, then so may nanny salaries.

YOU the employer are responsible for paying your nannies tax and NI and if you dont YOU will be fined £3k by inland rev.
(not the nanny)

For what its worth i dont know a single nanny whose employers dont employ them properly and i must know around 40 nannies in my area.

So if you choose to do it its your risk but there is no way i would let you do it to me and if you did i myself would report you my employer to inland rev, and it would be YOU who would get the fine.

If you want a nanny you legally HAVE to be an employer and that involves paying tax and NI for the nanny and employers NI from your pocket too

sorry re-read your post and i realise you want a nanny who does want to pay tax

i cant imagine any nanny agency would give you a candidiate who wants cash in hand.

It surprises me that you are having trouble finding a nanny who wants to be paid properly actually. simply as i myself dont know one nanny who doesnt!

1dilemma - I think you are probably right
Lots of people seem to either do low official salary and the rest in cash or just cash

This is bad, but agreed for my employers to pay tax for me at a lower salary. Tbh I wish I hadn't. It becomes a pain in the arse when you have to declare income for a mortgage etc. I won't be doing it again!

nannies are the only employees that seem to talk about nett wages

i normally go for an interview and say what I want nett,and then say this is xxxgross a month

am very suprised that nannies dont want their tax paid - unless they take home gross as cant afford the nett wage from it?

Is this something to do with immigration status, do you think?
If they are in the country having overstayed their visa, then they won't be wanting things declared.
Does your job ad say that you will be operating PAYE? If so, perhaps applicants are saying that they don't get tax/ni paid in there current job, thus you job appeals to them.

when we interviewed for nannies two years ago, six out of seven wanted cash in hand - i.e. no tax or NI paid. I was really surprised. We wouldn't consider not paying properly and fortunately the nanny we wanted to employ was the only one who wanted tax and NI paid. But that experience suggests it is fairly common - I presumed it was so employers saved money while nannies earned a bit more than people could afford if they also paid tax.

If you go through a reputable agency you shouldn't have any trouble finding a nanny that wants her tax paying.

I worked at a nanny agency for a few years and before left (over a year ago now) it wasn;t uncommon for employers to be paying £350 - £400 a week net for a live in nanny and £450 - £500 net a week for a daily in the London area.

I agree its insane that household staff (nannies, hosekeepers etc) are still talking about salary in terms on net rather than gross. Maybe if you put in your ads that you are payong £* a week gross and the net salary in brackets they will then realise that you are looking to pay tax and NI.

Good luck,

I paid my nanny gross and in fact all negotiations were based on what her gross pay would be. Obviously she received the net ammount of that and I paid the tax and the NI. You need to calculate what you are prepared to pay gross and talk in those terms to any prospective nanny

most nannies want their tax/ni paid as they are in difficult position for getting mortgages/bank loans etc if they cant declare their salary properly. i would be wary of a nanny that actively doesnt want their tax paid and wonder what their immigration status etc was.
not sure what hours you are asking for but in london £9-£10 an hour is usual (we pay £9 liveout BEFORE tax and ni on top which is roughtly another 40pc) so for a 10 hour standard day this would be about right.
it IS eye wateringly expensive. but then they're not exactly getting rich on it - our four day a week nanny is taking home less than £20k a year from us, works long hours and has a lot of responsibility. she could probably get more working in a shop.

If they want to be paid cash in hand how will they feel about a CRB which I imagine is standard operating proceedure these days.
I wouldn't entertain cash in hand because if god forbid anything happened how would you prove you'd employed her ?

OK lets make this clear I'm only employing a nanny if I'm paying tax and NI, no way would I want a criminal record over something like that, never mind whether I would entrust my precious children to someone who didn't. (I'm not talking about a bit of babysitting or an extra hour once a month.)
Immigration status checks out when I've got that far either OZ, E Europe or have also had conversations with Turkish au-pairs (and I know they can earn x amount a week without paying tax)
What I was trying to say is yes nannies all talk net, (incidentally so do the agencies which for all sorts of reasons is really off isn't it?), yes we need to pay gross, when you do the maths a nanny is earning more than an engineer, junior Doctor, teacher, nurse and probably trainee accountant. That is a huge wack of moneyfine if you have a super qualified long hours etc but IMHE it is the same salary for a fairly moderate level of English, only wanting to work 8-6, poorly qualified applicant etc.

I'm thinking costs will come down once the credit crunch hits

I have tended to respond to ads so far (as I said ideally we're looking for Sept) to weed out all the really unsuitable candidates and have let the nanny lead on salary but always asked what they expect gross. I have only ever had one nanny give me a gross figure and one thankme when I said I was paying tax (however I think she thought it was in addition to her suggested hourly rate whereas I, living in the real world was intending to take it out of her salary )

Don't really want to use an agency too much money for what seems like very little.

I shall have to redo all the maths

I'm not being funny but if the credit crunch hits wages then it'll be all wages not just nannies and we'll all be up the creek.
I'm already starting to pay off all debts with the intention of stopping work next year because with the rising costs of food, petrol etc it won't be worth my working, plus I rather suspect that all this borrowing will be paid for by tax increases next year.

KatieDD we've been paying for it with tax increases for some time now.
In my job we've also been getting sub inflation (any way of measuring it you choose) pay rises for some time now.
I've actually not been to the supermarket in a while (dh has been going to stop me spending too much ) but went tonight and I was shocked food is so much more expensive (and I'm only talking about 1 month). Petrol seems to go up every time I walk past a petrol station.
Paying off debts is a good plan, we have been recession proofing ourselves for a while now, we also have alternative job options lined up if needed.

Starlight you're right you'd need to add about 40% onto that, that's whet makes me think a lot of people aren't apying the tax/NI.
you also have to add heat and light in the winter, food and nappies!