Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

I don’t think many people report to the council though on this. And we only have the OPs side of things, we don’t know if this was the last in a line of complaints.

I had issues with my kids’ nursery but I resolved them by speaking to staff in most cases. I didn’t pretend faux ignorance about a known issue/ solution and use this as an excuse to shop them to the council. I would have reported for safeguarding but not this.

And we don’t know what form the investigation from the council
took- it could have been pretty nasty for staff- who knows. If they thought that the nursery was going to be closed down then I can see that this could be really stressful and if staff are already working with kids plus extra work in the evenings this might be the last straw working in a room of toddlers would have sent me over the edge in itself.

Plus it’s just so unnecessary when everyone knows the score. Why would nursery keep a parent like that if they’ve got a waiting list 🤷‍♀️

Yes I think the nursery should have been more transparent.

I can't remember paying top up fees 20 years ago - everything was included.

This reminds me of a friend who would, in the mid 1990s, collect vouchers for a free pizza from a newspaper and then proceed to the restaurant, asking for a free pizza and .... tap water. But she was from Estonia and did not realise how free market enterprises work. I had to explain to her that if Brits would use a voucher, they would order drinks and starters and desserts because the restaurant has to make money. She was genuinely surprised.

A local nursery ended up closing after a complaint like this
It was very popular and lots of parents were furious and this did not make them very friendly with this person

They did give OP a breakdown when she asked. She just wasn’t satisfied with the answer.
i imagine they feel overworked as it is and responding to a council investigation would take extra time and effort from already long days and weeks.
i think tbh if you had this sort of friction it’s better to move, you don’t want your child to be someplace where they feel upset with you

Presumably the nursery were doing something wrong then.

Because the offer was limited to 15 hours from the term after the child turned 3, so many nurseries balanced it by allowing a 9-12 and 1-4 session each day, but charging for the hours in between to make up an 8-6 day and also being able to charge in full for other mornings or afternoons, plus being able to charge in full for non-pre schoolers.

Charging top up fee which they needed to survive and everyone apart from this pest was happy to pay🤷‍♀️

The increase was simply because the funding went down.

The OP didn't need to report the nursery if she just wanted to find out what the official regulations are.

The problem is you now to them are a problem parent. They explained it. That wasn't enough for you. Hopefully your dc doesn't pay the price for this.

Yes same here though I think my nursery fees were £25 a day all in! Plus a lovely nursery too with a chef on site.

Can't believe the prices these days!
Perhaps we need to have more state funded nurseries again?

You sound like an absolute nightmare. I’m not surprised the nursery want nothing to do with you. What terrible behaviour. If you didn’t like their charges you could move your child elsewhere (although good luck with that!). Your actions have damaged the relationship with the nursery.

If they’ve told you what they need in order to operate, and you say you ‘disagree’ what does that say about the respect you have for them as professionals running a business ? Why would you want to undercut and upset the people tasked with caring for your child?

The rules make things difficult for parents and settings.

As I childminder, I charge £6 an hour. The funding for 3 and 4 year olds is about £5 an hour but I can't be transparent and just charge £1 an hour top up - it's not allowed.
So instead I have to say it is a charge for 'consumables'. Then a parent of a potty trained 3 year old who brings a packed lunch might start questioning why they have to pay for consumables if their child isn't consuming much.

The funding is not sufficient. You do know nurseries are profit seeking businesses?
They always ask for extra for food and supplies now.
Its the only way they can legit give the free hours the government has forced on them.
If you'd rather pay for the hours and less of an add-on fee than do so. Or switch providers.
But none will fail to add at least a few quid a day onto the 'free' hours. They cannot afford not to.

Are you really that switched off and out of touch?!!

I mean technically yes you have every right to question what you are being charged and to complain if you think it's too much. Technically yes you have every right to ask for an investigation into something you think is dogdy practice.

Actually though you have a nursery aged child and you are intelligent and literate to have written a coherent argument, so there is no way all the information about how the Government are woefully underfunding childcare would have passed you by. So yes you instigated the "investigation" to find out whether the chargings were legal and needed, when you knew they were. That was very horrid and wanting nothing more to do with you is a sensible course of action for the nursery to take.

when a setting is investigated over funding, it’s generally not a small affair. It’s not just that particular child they will look at and the policies. They generally want to see the figures for every funded child, the registers for each child to tally up with the funding they have received, each and every invoice for each child to see what has been charged, the parental declaration forms for each child, what the consumables cover, the reasoning behind it, expenses to show what it covers. Sometimes they will look at one term sometimes more. It’s not a quick call where they can explain their reasoning, it’s an investigation and an audit all rolled into one.

It would be so much easier and transparent if providers were allowed to charge top up fees as then it would be absolutely clear that the government underfund childcare and parents who were previously paying, for example, your £6 per hour would only pay £1 an hour and be happy with that.

Calling it 'consumables', 'care package' or 'extra charge' makes it look like providers are being greedy or making things up rather than what they are actually doing which is ensuring they are not being paid less than their hourly rate.

This.

My lord the comments on here…

The OP didn’t go to the police with a report on fraud nor HMRC on money laundering.

She asked the council if what they charge is controversial as it seems to be a big jump from one month to the next.

If that prompted an investigation it’s not OP’s problem but the nursery as the should be transparent about what they charge.

This is what the government want though. They want to be seen as generous and giving and they’re quite happy for settings to come under fire because of it. It wouldn’t look good on government if it was clear how they underfund the sector so much and have historically underfunded it. They know how bad it is yet keep offering more and more to the detriment of settings. Government want children in school from 9months and this just helps towards that.

So there is a process and a way of accounting that has to be followed? In which case, if the OP wasn't happy with the explanation provided by the nursery, then she is allowed to ask that question of the council.

It may be a pain with the investigation, but maybe the nursery should have explained it better to the OP and then she would understand better. In her (admittedly single post..) she doesn't sound unhinged, demanding or complaining about the care- just on the way the consumables are calculated.

Hand your money and child over and don't dare question anything. Got it

Equally OP's loss of a childcare place is not the Nursery's problem.

Then they should put in writing the reason why they terminate the contract when she has been paying dutifully and she should be able to take action if so she wishes.