Would it be unprofessional if....

[MindingMum]

my policy on payment of fees states 'late payment of 10 days or more will result in your childs' place being offered to someone else' and...
I do offer it to someone one my waiting list without discussing the issue first with the parents who's fees are late?

Personally I think you need to at least attempt to contact the parents first- if they avoid/ignore you then you're being fair by offering the place

I think you need to give a parent whatever notice is specified in the contract (4 weeks).

This policy is very harsh. I take it it you have been badly burned by a non payer?

No Athene I haven't,It's just that I can't afford to be in a position where I'm out of pocket due to a late payments

I think in my own mind I realise that I will at least have to give them an oppotunity to explain and make things right - but how many times should we have to remind parents that fees are due?

Unfortunately we have to be harsh. Its apalling how many parents think its acceptable to forget to make their payment in time. I'm sure they would not think it so acceptable if their own payment didn't appear in their account on pay day!

Its quite common for childminders to have in their policies that the place will be withdrawn if payments are not made promptly on or before the agreed date. However, unless there is a clause in the contract allowing immediate termination for non-payment then the childminder must honour the notice period stated in the contract.

Its good practice to send a reminder automatically, in case its a genuine oversight eg if the parents each thought the other had paid or they thought they'd set up a standing order but there has been a problem at the bank. The earlier the error comes to light the sooner they can sort it out.

If the parent ignores your reminders you can give notice and you can pursue payment through the small claims court in which case your copies of reminders/emails etc will support your case.

Could you ask for a deposit for say the first three months so you have a bit of security until the parent estabilshes him/herself as a good payer?

I suppose any small business has this problem with non-payers.

I see nothing wrong with expecting payment on time. But, you do have to make some efforts with reminders, etc. I assume 10 days is 10 working days (i.e. two calendar weeks).

I think if I read what you wrote in the OP in the contract before I signed it I might sogn someone else's contract. It's not the expectation that you want payment on time, or even that you will take action after 10 days, but more the way you worded it seems unnecessarily harsh, almost confrontational.

I totally understand you need and expect to be paid on time.

Yes I suppose it could be read that way and maybe because I am full to capacity every day and am lucky enough to have a waiting list, I've become a bit intolerant and irritated with one of my mindee's parents.

Looking back to the OP (and the mood I was in when I wrote it this morning I think I was trying to justify giving notice to a parent who has peed me off

I was of course going to work the notice period, I just wasn't wanting to have another discussion about fees when I could just offer the place to another mindee who pays is desperate for more hours and pays on time.

You could send out a letter to all your parents saying you are installing a late fee:
1-2 days grace period
3+ days £5 per day until paid in full.
10 days late, contract may be terminated at CM's discression.

Or something like that.

So, tell me more about this problem payer? Maybe I can suggest something else to get her attention (I'm sure I prefer helping you to doing my crap job this afternoon )

i would say no payment by third day of care results in refusal of care, if payment is not received by third day in full i would(in extremem circs-if this is the norm- but in a clause where you can terminate contract with immediate effect

If you sack someone because they are a few days late with payment you will be a lot worse off when they take their business elsewhere and word gets out.

Agree with Banana. Termination of contract after a few days is too harsh. How would you like it if the gas company cut off your supply because you were 3 days late with you payment.

I think 2 weeks is the a bare minimum. A month would be more realistic.

Thanks everyone for advice and for stopping me from opening my mouth before engaging my brain

Athene - yes I could install a late fee except I have only the one parent who doesn't pay on time and I think the others would find the letter insulting

Rose - I would love to refuse care on the third day however as NotABanana says it's not good for your reputation plus Grandparents of mindee are very friendly with our Network co ordinator

NotABanana - fortunately I'd be no worse off if they left as no amount of money would be worth the messing about this parent gives me - not only money but other things as well plus lovely mindees waiting for more hours

Maybe you could put it in her contract when it is up for renewal and explain that it is going in everyone's contract as and when they are renewed. And then explain to each parent that you had to do this because you were having problems but not to worry because it wasn't them and you didn't expect to ever need to enforce it.

Yes that sounds a good idea

BTW, it's Dad not Mum (she doesn't deal with anything - apparently the whole parenting thing is too much for her!)

I have to say though that if the mindee was my son, I'd want to give up on parenting too!

A month would not be more realistic. Would you go without your pay for a month?

Because I know I wouldn't, nor would any of my colleagues! In fact we would down tools until payment was in our account.

If you have this clause in your contract maybe if you do monthly/weekly news sheets you could put this in it also, just as a reminder.

I, for one, wouldn't expect my c/minder to work for a month with no payment when I wouldn't!

"I have to say though that if the mindee was my son, I'd want to give up on parenting too!"

So you look after him just for the money then?

Why don't you insist on a standing order or direct debit or something? Then the parent doesn't have to remember anything at all. If you accept childcare vouchers then this can happen automatically, can't it?

i think nab is saying he's hard work and although she does fun things and cares for him each day she is glad to get back to her own family at the end of the day..the 'spirit ' of this youngster plus their constant late payments are causing problem after problem, so even small things the child does, may seem bigger in the grand scheme?..i might be wrong?

I hadn't realised the boy was the son of the late payer.

How is your brother, Rose?

Thank-you Rose, I couldn't have put it better myself

Said mindee is very hard work and that coupled with his dad who is a reluctant payer is the problem.

Incidentally they do pay by childcare vouchers so obviously he deliberately delays payment as normally as llareggub says the payment would come automatically by BACS

NotABanana - Don't we all do our job mainly for the money? I really enjoy my job and I feel I'm really good at it. However, if I'm honest I keep this mindee on because no other cm's want him either and I'm afraid of the confrontation with his dad if I were to give notice.

So in a nutshell, I was using late payment as an excuse to give notice without having to go into all the other reasons

NotABanana - why else would she be looking after him if not for money?

There often seems to be an attitude that comes up on MN that childminders should only be in it for love and not care about the money. I'm sorry, but I love my job and would not want to change it, but I would not look after someone else's child for 10 hours a day without being paid well for it.

sounds like a horrible situation MM..particulary with the parent being so 'unapproachable and you worrying over the consequencs of giving notice

Hi NAB, brother seems to be getting better, his eye has gone down(swelling) loads, it actually looks like a very sore/bad black eye now, lots of blood still on eye ball, but it IS moving around as normal when he looks around, he just cant see anything from it..he has been allowed to drive again tho so they must be happy with it and his appointments are every 4 weeks now..still no news on HEr but its very hostile as far as ive heard(she has rang him and said if he doesnt lie and change the story she will go out and 'get someone else'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..brother in no uncertain terms(and with colourful language my mum said) told her to go as he doesnt want her!..he still sees her when she brings the children to my mums, she has the kids asking my mum if their mummy can come in..mum says no darling, she has to mind the car we dont want someone stealing it do we(my mum lives in a lovely area where this doesnt happen but seems to be a good enough answer for the kids)..his son is suffering, he doesnt know what to do for the best hes a little worrier and is 7 so can prob see what actually is going on..brother still takes son to his sports clubs through the week(tes time) and ses them on a weekend, but it seems to be causing more hassle as SHE starts shouting and cussing(like she did last weekend when the kids went to get out to come in and she told them to get abck on the car..been told even if police take action against her it could be months before we see anything hapening..so will sit tight..im keeping out of it now, he knows what needs doing..you can take a horse to water and all that!...anyway sorry MM for pinching your thread

So sorry to hear you've bad news in the family Rose I haven't followed your story so don't know the 'ins and outs' but virtual hugs anyway

You've not hijacked my thread at all, I've had a chance to see it in writing - so to speak and have got it off my chest

Do you think if the late payment runs to a month I would then be justified in giving immediate notice?

They couldn't really say that I'd broken the terms of my contract because they've already broken it by repeatedly not paying on time.

Oh God - I've become such a coward. Most Childminder I know would have got rid months ago

I'm gonna put up and shut up now, thanks for your help

I just felt when I was a nanny if I couldn't gel with the family I wouldn't stay just for the money. It isn't fair on anyone. Sounds a very difficult situation. Being afriad of the dad worries me a bit. That can't be good for you.

Rose - is there anyway she can be made to leave the house and your brother could stay there with the kids? If he had done it to her I am sure he would have been out in seconds.