When you advertise for a non-smoking nanny, would you accept one who smoked but not smoked when working?

[nannynick]

I've been wondering about this for a while... smoking is I feel frowned upon these days, particularly when it involves people who work with children. Many nanny job adverts request a non-smoker. But I expect there must be some nannies around who do smoke... though they don't smoke when working.
If a nanny applied for a live-out job which specified a non-smoker, how would you deal with it if the nanny then said they did smoke at their home.
I am wondering what parents feel is meant by non-smoker.

How should this be phrased in the Gross Misconduct section? If the employee is found smoking while on duty, that I feel could be grounds for Gross Misconduct. If they were found to smoke while not on duty, could they still be sacked under Gross Misconduct?

Should point out that I am a non-smoker, have never smoked and I expect never will smoke. So I am rather anti-smoking.

I think my main concern would be that the nanny would get irritable and short-tempered as the day went on w/o a ciggie and become less responsive etc to the children (who wouldn't be at their best either towards the end of the day).

Nick - never had this come up in my life so difficult one but if I went for a job and was asked then yes, I'd put non-smoker as apart from the few times a year I used to do this, I just wouldn't 'think' of putting 'smoker' iyswim. I agree with others about if they smoke in general but not around the children, I'd be worried about it still being on them plus they may not work as well if they are needing one. I do think it needs discussing at interview stage so that the person doing the interview knows exactly what's what.

I can't see why an employer would raise the subject of smoking during an interview, if an applicant had put on an application form, or on their CV that they were a non-smoker.

If someone was to put "occasional smoker" or "social smoker" then yes, an employer would ask about that at interview.

By putting "non-smoker" I feel an applicant is stating that they do not smoke. Am I the only one with that view?

yep agree with you nick - if you say you are a non smoker on cv then you dont smoke

prob better not to put anything on cv - and wait to be asked if you do smoke, then you can DESCRIBE the way you smoke iykwim

though still cant see how if you do smoke,that you survive for 10/12hrs without having one and not get grumpy/itratible with children etc

Nick, I agree thinking about it. I just haven't applied for a job since I was 17 so it's never come up. This is what I'd do:

1. Not disclose full stop on CV (although if I applied for job in childcare I may change my view on this)
2. Would put occasional smoker if the option was on their application form
3. If an advert said non-smoker, I'd bring it up at interview stage myself as would feel relevant to do that but would still apply as non-smoker as pretty much would be (I'm saying all this based on when I used to occasionally smoke)

Right, must go, dh dragging me to b&q.

Agree with imananny but not for the smoking very occasionally. I only smoked on these nights out and was never interested at all at other times.

Right, getting evils now so really MUST go

My CV doesn't say either way but I am a non smoker.

If someone puts that on their CV, I feel that it should mean that they never smoke.

It is dishonest to state "non smoker" if you do smoke - however occasionally.

no I wouldnt accept a nanny who smoked because it stays on clothes, skin, hair etc and it could trigger DD's asthma. (DH used to smoke but not in the house but it still had an effect on her health, see hasnt been so bad since he gave up )

So do you think it is reasonable to include in the Gross Misconduct section of a contract, a statement like:
Smoking while on duty, on the property or grounds.

What about something even more specific such as:

Gross Misconduct

If an employee is suspected of gross misconduct they will be suspended immediately pending investigation. If gross misconduct is confirmed, the employee will be dismissed without notice. This means that the employee will not receive the usual oral and written warnings, but will proceed immediately to
suspension pending an investigation.
Examples of Gross Misconduct include:
~ Theft
~ Damage to property
~ Fraud
~ Incapacity for work due to being under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs
~ Physical or sexual assault or harassment (either whilst at work or outside working hours)
~ Verbal abuse (whether to the employer or any third party)
~ Threatening behaviour (whether to the employer or any third party)
~ Gross insubordination (which will include any conduct that tends to undermine the employer?s independence or self-determination)
~ Breach of confidentiality
~ Deliberately or knowingly endangering the children's safety
~ Persistent unreasonable lateness.
~ Smoking (either whilst at work or outside working hours)
These are only examples. Gross Misconduct is not limited to the behaviour listed above.

Note: The above is mostly from Direct Payments Contract: Personal Assistant which is what a person with a disability may use when employing someone to help them. Thus it is similar (as the workplace is a person's home) to a nanny contract.

I don't mind if our nanny smokes when she she goes out with her mates on Friday night. But I object to her/him ever smoking in front of the kids -- on or off duty. And since she lives in our house, it would be a problem.

Also, I actively seek out nannies who are interestested in a healthful and active lifestyle. And someone who smokes isn't particularly responsible with their health in my opinion.

And, if I sought out a non-smoker and then discovered she smoked after I hired her, it would mean she had lied in the interview and I'd have a problem with that too.

Depends how hot you are on absolutely no smoking around your children. Any smoker is going to have days, even if they are rare, when they 'nip out the back garden for a quickie' while the kids are napping / entertaining themselves and you are at work. If you are horrified at the idea, don't employ a smoker. Smoking is addictive and no smoker can absolutely promise not to smoke all day.

surely you can't dictate that someone doesn't smoke when they're outside working hours! seems wrong

Why not? (especially if they live in my house)

I think it's perfectly reasonable that you are able to ask for a complete NON SMOKER.

the op stated live out

I am!

As an agency, we were given a smack on the wrist for asking that a LIVE IN nanny had to be a non smoker!! Apparently it is against their human rights to ask them not to smoke . Id have thought that with it being in someone elses home, it would be different, but alas no. So we were told that if we kept the advert as it was, we would be taken to court ... but if we wanted to leave the advert up, we had to stipulate only that the family lived within a non smoking environment. We were also told that if they (the job centre!) put forward any candidates that smoked & we did not get them an interview (ie even if their experience did not match the needs of the client!) they would take us to court for breech of human rights!

So .. it's ok for the government to tell you where & when you cant smoke .. but an employer of a live in nanny is apparently not allowed to make that decision about their own home & children? Stupid!!

Sorry if that was a little o/t. Just had to add my bit as it really did get my goat, so to speak!!

That is outrageous. You should verbally advise parents to ask the candidate themselves in the interview.

Surely as an employer you have a right to have a non-smoking property (house, surrounding land, car, etc.)

AlisonA are you sure about that? Especially now that the smoking ban has come in - and it has always been permissible to ask for non-smokers only to, for example, rent rooms or house share with non-smokers.

To be honest, I think most of our clients do ask the nannies anyway. They arent really allowed to apparently (in the same way you cant ask if the nanny is going to be having children!!), but I think most do. We just cant advertise the fact. Horrible if you ask me.

I am a non smoker & shared a flat with a smoker for a year when I was nannying in London. I was constantly sick for that year - which I blamed on the fact she would start smoking at 6 in the morning & not stop until she went to sleep again!!

I do think it is all a tad stupid - all too PC for my liking. If you dont want someone to smoke or who smokes, in your house, then you should be allowed to say so!!

i would have considered a nanny who said she/he never smoked at work/during the day...

but dp said absolutely not. how cant hey be sure they wont ever have one little cheeky one while out at thr park or summat?

dp is v anti smoking. i am an ex smoker.

madamez - this was after the smoking ban came in up here in Scotland (about a year or so before it was rolled out in England). Believe me, I challenged them on that but was told that regardless of what the government say about smoking in public places, you cannot specify this in a job advert.

Surely it is against my human rights to be forced to smoke when I prefer not to.

its not just the smoke iyswim. i dont want them watching people they respect smoking.