Charging retainer for time at playgroup/nursery - help please!

[chickenmama]

I'm getting myself all confused over this issue.

The hours would be 8am to 6pm three days a week. The children attend nursery for 6 hrs on 2 of these days. I was thinking of charging maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of the hourly fee for the time they're at nursery. I would charge full fee if I had to look after them at any time during this period.

Here's where I'm stuck, and I need to clarify this before I mention it to the parents - what happens when the children aren't with me (eg on holiday during term time or sick days)? Would I charge for the 4 hours and the retainer fee, or the full 10 hours? I know the parents won't agree to this if it's the latter, and with the NCMA helpline closed until I speak with them I really need some help!

Are these children taking up under five places? how old are they? Sorry about the questions but it will help with my answer!

The children are aged 2 and 3 1/2 - I have actually had to get a variation for the mornings as I will be over my under 5 numbers.

Looking forward to your answer!

My policy if its any help.

UNDER 5?S IN OTHER SETTINGS

A child is counted as an under 5 by Ofsted until they are in full time education i.e. at school for 10 sessions a week.

A child who is at pre school is a under 5 and if they are with a childminder before and after pre school, and require a fulltime space during the holidays they therefore are taking a childminders full time space. As such you are required to pay retainer fee for the time that they are at preschool, as the childminder cannot then fill the part time that they are at pre school.

I charge 1/2 BTW

Its common to charge full fees while they are at preschool/nursery btw, although I know some charge 1/2 fees.

When the children are on holiday or off sick its usual that you get paid exactly the same per day as you would have been paid if they attended. So if you charge 1/3 fees for the time at nursery and full fees for the rest of the day, add together to get your daily fee which will apply whether they attend or not.

Except:
meals - I charge separately for meals so I don't charge this when I've had plenty of notice of absence eg annual holiday but the meal charge still applies if they're off sick & I've had less than 24 hours notice (because the meal is often in the oven or fridge by the time I know they're not coming). And if you charge separately for pickups/drop offs at nursery (if using your car) you shouldn't charge this when you haven't made the journey IMO.

Thanks shoshe - think I might need to borrow your policy

ayla - do you write the charges for meals and pickups/drop offs in your contracts? The lady I spoke to on the NCMA helpline suggested I didnt do this, but increase my fee instead (I was planning on doing it this way if the parents didn't want me to be on call during nursery hours). I'd be really interested to know how you charge for the travel - at the moment I add on 1/4 hr extra but not sure if thats what I should be doing.

I charge inclusive of everything, then put £1.50 per breakfast, £3.00 per cooked meal, £0.75 per snack, per child onto my expenses.

All outings/petrol is paid for by me, again putting it onto my expenses.

Sorry, DDs hijacked the computer, in these circumstances I would charge full fee's whilst the children are at nursery/playgroup - this is also very common around my area.

As for the other charges I do similar to shoshe except that I don't provide meals at lunchtime due to very short time available as I only have 30 mins between nursery drop offs.

Thanks HP... what would you do if you knew the parents didn't want to pay the fee? When I mentioned a retainer before they said they wouldn't need me to be on call while the kids are at nursery. That's the reason I was going to suggest maybe 1/3 of the fee. I've already reduced the hourly rate quite a lot as they have 2 children, I really don't think they would want to pay for the time they aren't in my care.

Think I've got myself into a tricky one And the worst bit is the whole family are lovely, I couldn't bring myself to let them down.

chicken mama, yes these costs are stated on the contract. I have a separate charge for meals as I prefer to make it optional for parents to book or not as they prefer from week to week. Some book meals on certain days or a few weeks at a time and bring pack ups on other days. As long as they book or cancel the week before, to allow me to plan the menus, I'm flexible on this.

You could have each contract have a different daily rate to reflect the meal/transport requirements of each child, then you can charge that full rate when child is absent. But you'd still need to state the costs of transportation and meals in the contract in case they book an extra/longer day and require different meals or a different journey. Also if you have a set rate in your daily fee you're committed to making the journey at that rate even if you have to take a longer route due to roadworks/accident etc.

I don't really want to do pickups/dropoffs so have avoided that so far. (live close to local school) But its in the contract, just in case, at 40p per mile. Plus the contracted hours would include my travel time (eg, if I had to leave at 7:30 am to collect child at 8am they have to book me from 7:30 am). So my accounts would show income of 40p per mile and mileage allowance of -40p per mile = zero profit to be taxed. With meals my accounts show the receipt values of the groceries bought as expenses (my turnover is over £15000 I can't do estimates any more) and the meal fees as income. Which runs at a loss.

You have to remember chickenmama you are running a business and those hours that they are at nursery will be very hard for you to fill. It has to be worth your while this family taking up the spaces. Explain to mum you need to charge a retainer as they are taking up the space. I think you are already being generous as it is, and they would find it hard to find someone else so accomadating.

I agree if they are off it is the same fee for the day as it would be if they were attending. HTH.

They are not paying you to be on call. They are paying you to keep a place for the sole use of their child.

Ask them if they know anyone who would like to use the place while their child is at nursery? If you can fill the place they won't have to pay. But its not likely, and you can't afford to commit a whole day place on just half days fees.

Explain you've given this a great deal of thought and consulted with other childminders (thats us) and while they mostly charge full fees you value this family's custom and are prepared to reduce to the retainer fee of £x, but thats as low as you can afford to go.

That's a good way to put it ayla99, can't say fairer than that.

I PERSONALLY would charge full fee whilst one of the children were at nursery, but not the other. I say this purely because one of the spaces is 'extra' as you've been given a variation. I've always charged full fee whilst at nursery as can't fill that space, plus usually needed for inset days etc. But I do have one mindee who I didn't charge whilst they were at pre-school because they were my 4th under 5 and therefore what I was earning full stop was more than I could earn without the variation iyswim.

I totally agree with what the others have said, just think if one is extra then maybe things should be different for that one.

Hope that makes sense

Yes, I totally understand looneytune and was wondering about that myself.

I think I'd be ok with half fee as the retainer. Like you say, one of the children is 'extra' so it'll be like 1/4 total fee.

However, this would apply only until September when I lose my oldest under 5. From then on I would have to change it to half fee for both children when they're elsewhere as they will both fill my under 5 quota. Is it ok to alter the agreement like this?? The oldest of the two would be in school part time so their hours would be different anyway.

And how should I charge for the children? I've said a total of £6 an hour, so £3 each, or should it be £3.50 (that's my usual fee) for the younger child and £2.50 for the older one? Or something else?

Oh, and huge thanks btw, you've all been SO helpful

If you are going to offer a discount for siblings you should offer the cheaper rate to the oldest child, this is recommended by the NCMA (I'm sure). That way when the oldest child starts school you won't lose the full hourly rate iyswim.

Oh! Another question - does the retainer fee still apply if a child is attending school (reception class, aged 4) for just a couple of hours a day?

Yes, as the child is not classed as being a 5 year old, so they are taking a full-time space.

I'm a parent, not a childminder. My dd will start nursery in September on the days when she's with the childminder.

I'm fully expecting to pay full fees to my childminder. My dd is going to be with her before and after nursery, so she is taking up a space. Plus, her place at nursery is free (NEF funding), so I'm not financially any worse off.