Stopped seeing granddaughter

[DuxburyGrans]

We used to provide a lot of childcare for our D and have looked after GD (8) from birth often for a week at a time. GD has dyspraxia hf asd and adhd which has got worse since she was 5 as our D has MH problems and is v inconsistent with our GD. D is divorced SAHM . Over the last 2 yrs we have found looking after GD overnight too exhausting as we are in our mid 70s and have health issues of our own. We wanted to see GD for 3/4 hrs at a time & this suited GD. She needs constant 1/1 and expects us to run around with her, hide in small places etc just like her friends. Overnight was getting too hard as she would only get off to sleep by 1.30 and was up again at 5.00 - she has been unsettled and is not on meds - she had no problem sleeping at ours when she was younger and more settled at home. We have spent a lot of time doing DIY for D - new kitchens, decorating, new floors etc and have given her money so she has no mortgage. We did the school runs for over a yr as she felt unwell when GD was 7. We ran D& GD to apts, leisure activities etc until 8m ago. D has been increasingly hostile to us since GD started school and has now cut off all communication with us and will not let us see GD. We keep emailing and messaging D - she won't answer the phone and send GD little messages regularly and small presents. D has also stopped GD seeing her dad and all her relatives.We are at a loss at what to do. Gds dad wants to see her to and our D refuses to communicate with him and threatened to kill herself if he applies for a court order. He contacted SS but they weren't interested & said case closed - our GD had SS involvement when she was younger as they had concerns over D being able to look after her. What can we / her dad do to help GD? Any advice much appreciated.
.

I think you might be better posting in Legal or Relationships. This section is for Childcre settings, nurseries, childminders etc.

This is such a huge welfare issue. I'm shocked, but sadly not surprised by SS. If you truly believe your GD is at danger, you need to contact the police.

However, they may try and place GD with you as temporary care. It sounds like this would be too much for you. What is GD's Dads home life like?

Tell GD dad to go to court and get access, then arrange through him to see her.

He can't not go for access just because she's threatening to kill herself, there's a child's well-being at stake here stop pussy footing around her mother.

Absolutely this

Thanks for replying. Ex s in l lives about an hr away so there'd be a problem with GD's school. Gd is settled in a sen unit in mainstream primary and is accessing mainstream classes as she is v bright. No sen units in mainstream where her dad lives only sen schools or mainstream neither of which is suitable. Her dad has remarried and has baby girl of 7 months but our D will not let GD meet her new sister. We would have GD if we could but don't feel we would be suitable anymore. If D would allow her ex to have his D eow it would be a big improvement and would keep a check on her too but she wont budge or egen communicate.

The dad should go to court for a contact arrangement. The mother threatening suicide is not a good reason not to. Actually, I'd say it's more of a reason to do it and she is demonstrating how emotionally unstable she is.

Your son in law needs to go to court and gain access. That is on him as a loving father.

If he comes to visit his DD, he could perhaps bring his dd to visit your home, so he doesn't have to travel back and forth quite so much. You could support him in providing a venue. It might help your dd accept the situation, since her dd will not meet the 'new woman' immediately.

But the first step is he must gain access. He is the one with parental responsibility, he is the one who has the right to see his dd. And he needs to enforce your dgd's right to see her dad and her sibling. There is no other way.

So your daughter is a risk to your dgd, her dad can't take her because - list of excuses, he won't apply for court ordered access because the mum is mentally unstable....

Poor kid, if her dad spent even a tenth as much effort into getting access or custody as he did into making excuses there wouldn't be a problem at all.

He really does need to step up and think about his dd, even if it means moving back to the area.

I can't believe any parent would leave their child with a parent who's a risk and just shrug it off like there's nothing they can do without even trying.

It doesn't sound like you'll get anywhere with your daughter, but you absolutely should be telling him he's a selfish arse and needs to think about his dd.

We think ex husband should go to court but he's reluctant. We keep trying to persuade him and have suggested approaching our D via a solicitor as a start. We think communication via a solicitor would get D to change her mind about access. Father reluctant - not sure whether reluctance is him or his new wife as the cost can be tens of thousands as Dad would not feel able to represent himself in court - unlike our D who has 2 post grad quals. A family friend whose wife was restricting access paid £25,000 in legal costs and took 2 years. Our GD is worth it but 2 years is a long time - he needs to see his D much quicker. We suppose Cafcass might allow him interim access although D would do everything in her power to stop it and would insist on it being at a supervised centre so not much fun for GD. Also we can see a scenario where D persuades GD that she should refuse to go. She has already tried to persuade Gd that her dad is bad for her and an abuser who gaslights her - this is not the case. GD is easily persuaded because of asd but she has told us in the past she misses her dad. He's in touch with GDs school but they side with our D who is v convincing and they have told him he's not to go to any school events in the day where his D is present like sports day.They don't know mum well as she changed schools for GD recently without letting Her ex know until afterwards. If people don't do everything she says she gets rid of them.All parents were invited to a classwork celebration event and his ex wasn't going and he wanted to go in but he was told not to as it was too long since he'd seen his child. D portrays herself as a vulnerable victim - reality far from it. Parents evenings ok because after school.He has PR. GD was above age expectations academically at 6 , now 2/3 years below. He has requested sen reports from school that he should have been sent but school aren't responding. He thinks his ex has told school he is emotionally abusive as if he questions her she says it is abuse, he isn't, she is.GD was much more settled when seeing her dad and it gave her mum a break and made her more likely to meet her Ds needs - she is capable of this. She has the ability to care for her daughter but no one keeping an eye on her is likely to do harm. We'll keep trying to persuade her dad to get legal help as we also think it's needed. He contacted NSPCC but they just directed him to websites. We 'll try again to persuade him. Thanks for your comments.

A lot of the school stuff in nonsense. They can't side with either parent, they side with what has been laid out legally.

Your daughter could tell them not to contact him about his dd until she is blue in the face, and they still would because he has PR.

It's also not difficult to contact NSPCC, they have a phone number to report any concerns or abuse, he knows the school, he could share his concerns there too, I also doubt he contacted SS tbh, they would at least go and visit, especially with prior involvement.

It sounds, to me, like your DD has cut you off for whatever reasons, and there's a dad there who simply can't be arsed and is fobbing you off with stories of how he tried, or why he can't try, because he has a new family now that his dd doesn't fit into.

He doesn't need representation in court either, I think it's 2/3 hundred pounds for him to put in a court application that will get him the minimum of EOW.

We take onboard your points about not bothering about suicide threat - this has always been a concern as there have been number of attempts including 2 in a fortnight when GD a baby hence SS involement. He has phoned and emailed Nspcc but they weren't v helpful other than suggesting useful websites.He has phoned Child services and we think he should contact them again as they have been involved in the past.D is highly educated , 2 postgrad quals, and v articulate & convincing. He didn't abandon our GD our D ended the relationship when she got pregnant a yr after they married before GD was born. We think he was used & he's always been around for our GD. Court is only a few hundred if other parent agrees. EoW is the usual minimum but it will probably take a long time to get it and lots on barrister fees. D would benefit from EOW as would GD but a solicitor needs to try to persuade her to agree to contact as a matter of urgency.With GD having sen she'd be distraught at leaving mum but it might be the best LT - it's v hard to say this. Will get him to be more insistent with school too & to contact LEA
Thanks for your help.

Sorry OP, I agreed with @InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow That just sounds like a long list of excuses on the part of the father. The thing about the school refusing to let the father take part is not true. Schools require court orders to make those sorts of decisions.

If someone tried to stop me seeing my child I would walk over hot coals, spend every penny I have and mortgage myself to the chin to ensure I had access. I wouldn't worry in the slightest about representing myself in court, and I don't have any post grad qualifications.

I think you need to step back. If the father can't be bothered, as seems to be the case, then your DD has a right to raise her child her way with no reference to anyone else, as she seems to be doing. It sounds as though the little girl is well placed in a good school that is ideal for her needs and is happily settled.

No need to be sorry OPs views are useful. Thanks.GD is in a good school but previous school also good & she was well above age expectations in school reports. Teachers told dad she is 2/3 years below now and is upset at no one wanting to play with her ( GD is v sociable & atypical asd)She has been incontinent & had more pronounced asd etc since dad was stopped seing her & her mum increasingly inconsistent with her. She is not the happy , confident, sociable child she used to be. Mum was stopped by SS being alone with Gd for almost a yr when a toddler - she can't be left alone to raise her she can be dangerous when her MH deteriorates. The sooner ex husband gets legal advice the better & he probably needs to get SS to reopen the case too & to go back through their records. Thanks.

Get a solicitor and get to family court. There are no other options here. As grandparents you can get permission from court to make an application for contact , you should do this pronto.

In addition to her father going to court, as grandparents I'd be reporting my concerns (isolation of GD from all supportive relatives, risk of harm from mother etc.) to both the school and the local MASH.

Thanks. We wrote to the school who said we don't have PR so can't correspond with us. Have contacted nspcc too. Not heard of MASH but will look it up.

Thanks have found out about MASH and will let ex S in L know.

Just a point about the school & S/L - forgot to say that S/L forwarded emails from school and the Headteacher did say that S/L was not to go in to invited parent event as it had been a few months since he'd seen his D ( he had been trying to during this time). His D hadn't been asked how she felt. Head said he could go to parents' evening but not anything when the child was around like sports days or fundays as the child might not be able to cope with seeing him. Child's mother does not go in to these events. There is not a court order so he should have been allowed in school like other parents. We've seen the invite to ehcp review but he did not receive the paperwork and has only received 1 statement about 3 weeks after review ( from 1 teacher) with very worrying information on how far behind the child is and how she is upset at having no friends. None of this was discussed at the 'review' he attended which makes us think that whatever he attended was not the actual review. We've seen the teacher statement so he's not making it up. We've seen emails he sent to school asking to speak to her teacher about very serious concerns that had come light that needed an urgent response. It took 4weeks, 2 reminder emails and a phonecall to the school office to get response from the teacher. She wouldn't tell him anything by email and when he spoke to her she was very evasive and would not directly answer questions about his concerns about his D. This sounds v odd to us. Our other D ( a senior teacher ) has also said that schools have to give both parents with PR information so we don't understand why this school isn't doing. The school seems to be a vg one with an oustanding Ofsted. S/L has emailed Headmaster asking for missing documents and will contact LEA if he doesn't get the paperwork.
Some people have said that S/L abandoned his D for his new family - he didn't. He was cast aside once his ex was pregnant. He has always had his D eow and wants to still do this and he & his new wife are v keen for her to have a good relationship with her baby sister. She has her own well equipped bedroom at their house , has made friends there and his new wife's family like her and have formed a good bond with her. The child's mum has also accused them of being emotionally abusive - she hasn't met them & GD likes them.

If it is genuinely that worrying, I don't understand why your son in law hasn't been to court already. What is he waiting or? He has PR.

Unless there is something you don't know. I wonder what your daughter's side of the story is.

I would try and get SS involved as DD has a history of MH issues and isolating her kid like this could be symptomatic of an episode. I would request that a welfare check is held for your DGD at home, as you have very serious concerns for her physical and emotional well-being.

Thanks we think SS need to check and that a legal route needs to be taken and we'll keep telling him. If children's services could talk to GD at school with a teacher there that would be good too.
Has anyone used Families Need Fathers as S/L has been told of them by NSPCC - and if so are they good? I've looked at their website.