Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Need advice on contract issues for a nanny

20 replies

wassername · 28/03/2008 14:21

I'm drawing up a contract with a nanny who will work 2 days a week for me, bringing her own toddler with her.

I'd like some advice on what is reasonable to offer in terms of sick pay (how many weeks at full/half pay etc before going on to statutory sick pay), and what rate I should offer for overtime (not expected to happen but we need to cover it just in case). Also, if my nanny's toddler is sick and she doesn't want to bring him out, should this be "unpaid leave" and should we agree a reasonable limit on this too?

I've decided to offer 5 weeks paid leave - I heard 4 was average but was feeling generous...! Any other tips or advice on these issues would be welcome - I want to be fair to my nanny as she is lovely and I would like her to be happy and stay with us!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Harrybee · 28/03/2008 14:33

Hi Wassername, i understand where you are coming from. I think that it would only be fair to give your nanny a certain abount of days dependency leave. This would cover her child being ill or any doctors opt she may need to attend. Look at it as if the boot was on the other foot. You could maybe agree to say 6 days paid leave for dependant reasons, anything more will be unpaid unless your child can be taken with her.

With regards to sick pay its also the same thing, most employeers will allow 5-6 days paid sick leave then it will be SSP for the rest of the duration. Also for the overtime i would suggest time and a half, it may seem a lot but you need to make it worth her while seeing she has a family of her own.

Im sure you will come to a good arrangment, you seem to be a fair lady already agreeing to 5 weeks holiday.
Good luck, :0

imananny · 28/03/2008 15:12

5 weeks is slightly over the average 4 (i get 5) so thats nice to hear theres another generous mb. The average for sick pay seems to be 2 weeks (so 4 days in your case)

ovetime is generally set at the same rate of pay (unless bank holidays and mutally agreed ) as daily rate, so again time and a half seems very generous.

Glad you appricate your nanny,tell her sometimes and sure she will stay with you for ages

trockodile · 28/03/2008 15:28

As an ex nanny I would like to say how much I always appreciated a generous boss! But as a realist who has also seen lots of other scenarioes sometimes you are better being less generous in a contract -ie stat sick pay only, unpaid leave for child sickness etc. You can always review terms and be more generous, it is harder to change a contract if she begins to take advantage.
Good luck.

Blueskythinker · 28/03/2008 17:46

Make sure you specify whether public holidays are off, and whether they are paid on top of leave, or are included in leave allowance. Ensure leave & PH allowance are pro rata, and specify the rate at which they accrue - we had a nanny who wanted to use all her year's leave allowance within the first month of the new year. Also does she take leave when it suits her, when it suits you, or a combination.

fridayschild · 28/03/2008 19:30

I agree with trock, be mean in the contract and use your discretion once the nanny starts. I am quite happy to ignore the clause in my nanny's contract that says SSP only unless I think she is taking the pee.

And while it is lovely to give your nanny time off if her child is sick, who will look after your child then?

jura · 28/03/2008 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jura · 28/03/2008 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BirdyArms · 28/03/2008 22:30

I agree with others who say be mean in the contract but generous in real life. I would definitely go for ssp only. Also, unless you are able to take unlimited holiday yourself, I would give her a week less holiday than you get. Then you have some up your sleeve to cover for sickness and in case she leaves and you have a gap etc. You can always give her an extra week's holiday as a bonus of you want to.

nannynick · 28/03/2008 22:37

Refer here for details of statutory holiday entitlement. It is going through some changes at present... currently it's 24 days, will increase to 28 days in April 2009.

Sick pay, I would advise not giving any... straight to SSP.
Then when your employee is really sick, you can decide to pay them, rather than do SSP. If you say in a contract that X number of days sick are paid, then your employee will have X number of days off sick.

As a nanny, I don't think I've taken any sick days for being sick... took one for a funeral.

wassername · 29/03/2008 09:55

Hmmm...lots of interesting advice. I'm not sure what to do about sick leave now - I completely get the point about having only SSP in the contract but using your discretion to pay in full if appropriate, but a bit of me hopes that by offering even one week paid sick leave (which equates to 2 days in my case) it shows some kind of respect for my nanny which in turn she will reciprocate...?

I can see that perhaps I'm falling into the trap of trying to be too nice as I'm not used to being an employer (I am probably too pally with my cleaner too ) but when someone is working in your home and with your children you want to create an atmosphere of respect and trust don't you? How do you do this and at the same time not get taken for a ride?

I do really trust my nanny and don't think she would abuse that trust - but I'm sure that's how everyone feels and things do still go wrong sometimes.

My working days will be Tuesdays and Wednesdays so the only bank holidays that could affect us directly will be Christmas and New Year. I would pay for these days, but would I be expected to offer pro-rata payment for other bank holidays?

Also - out of interest, has anyone ever had to calculate and pay SSP as I believe it can be complicated?

Thanks everyone - this is so useful!

OP posts:
imananny · 29/03/2008 10:11

jura - that is what I have always had in my contract - though in the many years I have nannied (apart from last year when I was quite ill) I had taken off 2 sick days in over 15years (both times in hospital for operation)which I think is a very good record.

I dont take days off for a cold,but go into work and die on sofa which i know my mb appreicates.

I am rather insulted that some on here might think that just as we have x number of sickdays we will use them , though i guess some nannies might

I honestly think that at least a weeks sick pay in full is fair to both employer and nanny.

BH - if the nanny wouldnt normally work a monday then she shouldnt be paid for them, I dont work fridays so didnt get or expect to be paid for good friday, but if my working day falls on a BH then yes i would- iyknim

AtheneNoctua · 29/03/2008 10:27

Never put any sick pay (except SSP of course) in a contract. Pay the days off if you think they are reasonable. But never give them legal grounds with which to pull a sickie. Loads of employees do this whether they are nannies or not. It just gives you something to fall back on.

I have never not paid a nanny's sick time off. But, I would if I though she was taking the mick.

LadyMuck · 29/03/2008 10:33

There can be a difference between what the contract says and what happens in RL. I'd go with SSP in the contract but so far I have always paid the nanny when sick. In terms of what to do about dependency leave, I have to say that I haven't yet come acorss an employer who gives full pay, or indeed any pay for dependency leave. I think that if you are giving 5 weeks leave then that should be sufficient to cover any leave needed because her child is sick. IME nannies end up with more than the stated amount of leave because we have more holidays anyway. It seems the norm for the contract to state that the employer can choose 2 weeks of holiday (for the nanny) and then the nanny chooses the other 2. In our case we may be away for say 5 weeks during the year, the nanny can choose another 2, so overall gets 7 weeks.

In terms of overtime I think that my contracts have always stated the hourly rate (ie same as normal rate). Agaim ime the times when the nanny is most often wanting to work extra time is when her other employer is away, so she is being paid by her other employer and has the opportunity for overtime. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium under those circumstances! But you might want to set different terms for late working for example.

In terms of keeping the nanny - pay prompty, leave the house in the state that you would like to come into it, be proactive in reviewing pay, remember birthdays and include her in the tat from holidays list, remember that we all have off days and the occasional chance to leave early or other small bonus usually gives a feel-good factor.

nannynick · 29/03/2008 12:03

Business Link have a calculator which will work out holiday entitlement. It is useful to use their calculator, as the statutory holiday entitlement is changing a bit at the moment.

Business Link Holiday Calculator

For 2 days work a week, it calculates the following (based on Leave year starting 1st Jan 2008)

Based on the information provided, your employee is due 9.6 days' annual leave for the year starting 1 January 2008, though you may choose to offer more than this.

Please note that bank holidays can be included in the minimum statutory holiday entitlement but employers may choose to offer bank holidays in addition.

Therefore by offering 5 weeks leave (10 days) you are offering above current statutory leave, which is perfectly acceptable.

The same calculation for leave year starting 1 Jan 2009, is 10.9 days - so you will need add another .9 of a day on to the 5 weeks.
And for leave year starting 1 Jan 2010, it is 11.2 days.

So you may want to change how you phase this in a 'written statement' (contract). You could decide that you will round up to the nearest whole day. In which case you could say that holiday entitlement is 'statutory holiday entitlement rounded up to nearest whole day'. You could then define that if you so wished, for 2008:10 days, 2009:11 days, 2010:12 days.

jura · 30/03/2008 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

imananny · 31/03/2008 08:26

jura - sorry was feeling a tad tired when i wrote that comment, agree many do use sick days, I have several friends who work in offices and use their sicks days for a cold/sofa day [hmmm]

Thank you for your nice comment, I hope I am a professional as a nanny

Squiffy · 31/03/2008 14:26

wassername, listen to the advice here re SSP. In all the (very large) companies I have ever worked for my contracts have specified SSP entitlement only, with a proviso that an employee may continue to be paid their salary during a period of sickness, at the discretion of the company. You are not being mean in doing the same, just normal. Putting in a week or something is pointless and doesn't provide any real reassurance at all, in fact it could do the opposite: An honest person cares if they think there is a risk they might for example go into hospital for 3 weeks: if you state that you will pay for one week of sick then the natural assumption is that you would not pay for the following two weeks: result: stress.

Ref Bank holidays I am fairly sure you need to pay a pro-rata level of Bank hols, even if your nanny only works Tues/Wed. so you will need to pay for 3.2 days of holiday regardless of when the bank holidays fall. The easiest thing to do by far is to say that the holiday entitlement includes bank holidays and then add on the effective no of days to this entitlement. EG if you were going to pay 5 weeks plus bank hols then you should state you are paying 33 days to include bank hols, and that this will be pro-rated down by 2/5 ie 13.2 days pa.

Ref her taking unpaid time off if her child is ill, I would be VERY careful how you word it, because she has a legal entitlement to take as much time off as necessary. The amount of time she could take unpaid isn't defined in law so you could be open to legal action if you put an amount of time in the contract. The wording you should use is something like "With regard to dependants, the employee has a right to to take a reasonable amount of time off work to deal with certain unexpected or sudden emergencies and to make any necessary
longer term arrangements. Any such leave taken will be unpaid". If you try to put in something with the intention of being more generous, you could end up doing more harm than good.

Whilst I can see that you are trying to be extra nice, you really really should be careful about setting out things contractually because you may inadvertantly achieve the opposite. Far far better to set out the contract with standard normal wording and then please your nanny every now and then with bonuses (or full pay when they are ill etc), than to try to do what you are attempting to do, however well-intentioned. Also, starting out on the belief that your goodwill will be reciprocated is VERY unwise - you will feel taken advantage of if it isn't (what you are doing is building in 'implied' contractual behaviour. Far better on both sides to be pleasantly surprised by good behaviours than to simply anticipate them and mark someone down if they don't reciprocate)

FWIW I would also advocate being VERY professional, and to limit the pally bit as much as you can. Otherwise you will find yourself going through torture if for example you needed to tell your nanny to do something differently. We ALL have to do that at some point over something, and the more pally you are the more awkward it is (again because of too many expectations on one side or the other).

I am not advocating that you treat your nanny like a replaceble commodity or anything like that, but you can be properly professional AND make your nanny feel very much appreciated, and that is the balance to aim for, otherwise it will end in tears. The muddier the boundaries the more likely it is they will get inadvertantly crossed.

To make your nanny feel loved I would advocate a standard contract with standard terms and then the following:-

  1. Pay on time by direct debit
  2. Never arrive home late, and always try to get back early on days you know their own schedule is tight
  3. Never ask them to do non-nanny chores. If they choose to wipe down the kitchen and fill the dishwasher make a point of thanking them regularly
  4. Always find time to ask after her family and follow what is happening in her life
  5. Give her a bonus every now and then and an annual payrise (don't wait until she asks for one)
  6. Don't chop & change hours at the last minute and don't assume that she will always be available for extra babysitting etc. Always have a back-up babysitter so that your nanny knows she can refuse to do extra without feelign guilty about it (never give a good nanny an unjust cause to feel guilty or bad)

Not an exhausitve list - am sure nannynick could add to it. But these are the thigns that make a difference to how a nanny feels valued, and not the stuff that is in the contract...

jura · 31/03/2008 15:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

imananny · 31/03/2008 18:33

To make your nanny feel loved I would advocate a standard contract with standard terms and then the following:-

  1. Pay on time by direct debit
  2. Never arrive home late, and always try to get back early on days you know their own schedule is tight
  3. Never ask them to do non-nanny chores. If they choose to wipe down the kitchen and fill the dishwasher make a point of thanking them regularly
  4. Always find time to ask after her family and follow what is happening in her life
  5. Give her a bonus every now and then and an annual payrise (don't wait until she asks for one)
  6. Don't chop & change hours at the last minute and don't assume that she will always be available for extra babysitting etc. Always have a back-up babysitter so that your nanny knows she can refuse to do extra without feelign guilty about it (never give a good nanny an unjust cause to feel guilty or bad)

sooooooooooooo true squiffy

wassername · 31/03/2008 22:37

Oh wow - this is certainly the place to come for expert advice. I am taking it all on board and am very grateful. I know I have to learn to be an "employer" instead of a friend - it's just very hard...! Will do my best though.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread