London mums working long hours - how do you manage childcare?

[Ceramic272]

I’m only(!) 4 months pregnant, so this is all VERY very contingent - but after some conversations with some older friends, I’m thinking ahead to how we might manage childcare in London and feeling totally at sea.

DH and I both work your stereotypical corporate (read not very child friendly) jobs… However we do both love our work/are on good tracks. I’ll need to go back full time maybe around 9months (we will try and share some parental leave though I’ll do the bulk). SAHM/ part time isn’t on the table for various reasons, nor is a longer mat leave really an option in my job (so please please don’t start a debate on any of those/tell me to change jobs! It’s difficult enough to make it in my industry as a woman as it is :/.)

So the main options then are a nursery or nanny. It seems a nursery would be “cheaper” ( maybe around 25k a year?), and I like the idea of “socialisation” I guess, but obviously they all end 630pm latest. Frustratingly both our jobs can be unreliable and end much later in the day, with longish commutes, so I worry this will cause significant stress between us ducking out of meetings/constantly trying to decide whose turn it is to dip out for pick up etc.

So the obvious option is a nanny- and the more senior women I work with who have children all use this - but I’m just stunned at the costs! Am I right in thinking it’s going to be 50-60k per year all in? :s We could manage but with all other mortgage costs etc we’d basically not be saving much/anything at all..

Are there any ways to manage this better- eg 3-4 days a week nanny/1-2 days a week nursery? (as we can each wfh 1 day a week- but I don’t know if nannies are keen to work part time..). Or has anyone tried nursery plus say an an au pair/nanny evening wraparound to give some flexibility? (Is that even an option?) And where is the best place to find nannies - is it simplest to go through an agency first (and which one?) I’d love to hear tips from other London folk in similar job positions on the best ways to manage!

You will definitely need a nanny, but also think seriously about how much if your child's life you want to be absent for. I say that as a working parent who feels no guilt about using childcare - you have to find some balance that doesn't mean only seeing your toddler and young child on weekends.

I'm a single mum who's been raising my now teen daughter alone since she was a baby. I used to work very long hours and travel abroad for work. My family live abroad, so I had no one around.

A live-in nanny was the solution for me. Absolutely couldn't have done it without one.

Doctor / single parent - nanny

Reading this from Scandinavia and my jaw is on the floor.
But then again, I don’t know any lawyers … maybe they’re the same all over.

Another thing to throw in the mix is how your DH’s work will react. It depends a lot on work culture but I’ve seen it happen a lot that men
who have diary boundaries for pickup/dropoff/taking the kids to their swim class are treated somewhere between a saint and a superstar. Women who are juggling everything are “on the mummy track”. Obviously this is obvious misogyny but it’s a dynamic
to bear in mind. You might find it easier if you cover mornings and arrive a bit “late” to work, and DH leaves “early” to do handover with the nanny. Again, depends on the culture but arriving later than others seems to blend into the background better than leaving earlier.

The other thing is yes the nursery years are expensive but short, but the school years are long and the hours are worse! (9-3.20 for mine, and after school club only runs until 5.30) It might be worth building a good relationship with a great nanny now, so she can do the school wraparound for you when it comes to that stage. Though I’ve noticed DS probably needs much more “parental” input now he’s at infant school than he did when he was nursery age. I am not a “baby” person and I would feel a lot worse about “outsourcing” hearing DS’s phonics and seeing him write his first sentences and chat (complete shit!) about his day than I did about outsourcing naps and the 3pm feed when he was smaller.

I went back full time after both mat leaves working long hours (husband does pick up most days) and I found it unbearable most of the time. I still do, a few years in, and am looking to change my work patterns as a result - either a less pressured role closer to home, or going part time.

Don't underestimate the emotional wrench of going from seeing your baby 24/7 to seeing him or her for an hour a day. It's not enough.

And as a PP has said, there will be a lot of sickness in the first couple of years. This is less of a problem if you have a nanny but nurseries are like petri dishes of germs.

I don't know any new parents who manage to put money into savings while they have young children to be honest. We didn't go on holiday for years!

If law firms in particular are serious about improving gender diversity and closing the gender pay gap they should be doing way more to provide huge flexibility and part time options.

Just to say that not every nursery is the same. We are SW London but ours doesnt actually allow sign ups during pregnancy (i think in a bid to stop the madness of having to sign up at 12w pregnant!!). I think it might be in the minority but there are ones like this out there - most of them have their sign up policies on the website so you can start looking if you end up going down that route.

I had mine signed up for nursery at 12 weeks pregnant. But I went back at 3 months last time and will again this time.

Some nurseries are more flexible than others and some also close later than 6:30, mine closes at 7. You need to have a good look at what is available in your area if you go down the nursery route.

Congratulations on your pregnancy. Everyone on here has already given you excellent advice but wanted to add mine. I’m an ex city lawyer but left pre kids and am now in public sector. A very wise friend in law reminded me that going back to work and paying for childcare is an investment in your career and in you. So don’t worry if the first few years feels hideously expensive - if it’s right for you and your family it’s worth it to keep you in the game. In the toddler years I got
friendly with the nanny of a partner at the law firm I used
to work at. She worked for the couple who were both partners in city law - she lived in and the deal was she was very well
paid but often in loco parentis 24/7. So that’s one solution. But others I have known do the taking in turns to do pick ups and bed times and then carry on wfh in the evenings. And that’s do-able especially with days wfh which break up the week. I would outsource as much as you can in terms of housekeeping - shopping, laundry, cooking etc so that you don’t end up doing that too.
set boundaries at work around availability but make sure your partner does that too - I really think that’s become more acceptable and many more fathers are at the school gate and leaving work for pick ups these days.
masses of good luck and here to discuss if you want to pm.

Husband and I both work in finance and live in London commuter belt - we have a nanny that does 12 hrs a day Mon-Thurs at total cost to us of £50k ish. We muddle through on Fridays with a patchwork of WFH / family / ad hoc babysitters. We occasionally both need to work late or travel with work and nanny will do overtime to cover.

My line of work is v male-dominated (usually male colleagues with SAHWs) and the few mothers at senior levels have either live-in nannies, two live-out nannies splitting the week or a husband who works much more flexibly (and even then they usually still have a nanny but husband does mornings and evenings).

I feel your pain with this decision and (from the position of being 8 years ahead of you) I would recommend you just keep learning and reflecting on your options and make sure you have thought through the long-term (10+ year) consequences of whatever you decide.

I went back to work after my first mat leave determined to achieve a balance and leave at 5ish most nights to get a few hours with baby before bedtime. I survived a few years of this before getting sacked, because I just wasn’t getting as much done as the folk working late into the evening, wining and dining clients etc. It took me a while to find another job where expectations were lower and I learnt a tough lesson about how the world of work is!

If I had my time again I’m not sure I’d do things the same.. I effectively (unintentionally) gave up a pretty high-powered and lucrative career path through my choices and I do wonder whether my children notice would have noticed the difference if I was there for bathtime when they were little. I honestly don’t know. What I do know is that you can’t survive in most (if not all) such high-paid jobs unless you put in similar hours and get similar results to your peer colleagues.

I haven’t read everything everyone has said…and good on you for thinking about this so early. Regardless of whether or not you find suitable childcare to cover 50+ hours a week - or whatever it is….. in my experience, the kids who are shoved from nursery to nanny to childminder etc for such long hours - do suffer. Once they hit school, there are frequently behavioural issues. It doesn’t make it fair or right, but it is what it is.

Re timescales with recruiting nannies… we’ve had the same one the whole time so others will know better but my experience is that they are all on fairly short notice periods (one month ish) so there’s prob not too much point starting to search more than a few months in advance.

I would find out who the local nanny agencies are where you live and call them to get their advice on timescales. They will also advise you on options around hours and pay eg I understand most nannies want full-time but not “insane” hours so you might need to have two on part time hours to get say >50 hours a week.

You need a nanny. Don't mess around with nursery etc. It's all doable but you need to be organised with nanny, cleaner, batch cooked food etc.

As others said you need a nanny

Whether a nannyshare or nwoc to make a little cheaper

If you can both def work one day at home then worth getting a cm those days

And 3 day nanny and 2 days cm

Yes will be a cost but you said can afford it

Will you def go back at 9mths or maybe slightly earlier

Nannies vary as in some have 4w notice - others like me when I was a nanny asked for 2mths as feel 4w isn't enough to find a new job

Depending when baby is born and you go back often nannies about sept as they leave jobs when child goes to fully time school

I would give a good 3/4mths to find a nanny so you can interview /check refs /second interview then offer ans as I said some have 2mths notice

Sure it will all work out

Single parent living in home counties with a 2 year old, and an hour’s commute.
I work shifts, including nights and weekends, but predictably and returned to work when my daughter was 9 months old.
My parents subsidise a nanny, and also live nearby.
Posters on here were very negative when I posted for advice while I was pregnant and agencies (I tried both local and London) couldn’t get their heads around my working pattern. I finished up advertising on childcare.co.uk with my location and a template week, with proposed salary range.
I either work Monday nights (in which the nanny is there from 6.30pm until 1200 the following day so I can have a couple of hours sleep when I get in), or work from home so 9-5. I don’t work Tuesdays. Nanny working hours Wed/Thurs/Fri 0630-7pm for which I pay about £3.2k a month. Family do other overnights and weekends as needed.
Personally I prefer the fact my daughter is looked after by a small group of people rather than a frequently changing key worker (no judgement on those who do) and don’t forget the effects of sickness. Don’t underestimate the benefits of knowing that there is a clean vest in the drawer (because the nanny has done the washing) or you can pull a home cooked meal out of the freezer.
Those who work after bedtime etc. - it is dependent on how good a sleeper your child is, which is not something you can control.
If you are commuting at all then you need to build some flexibility into your plans. I will try and get home early If I can, but know and trust that there is another plan if the roads/trains are stuffed. I also have a neighbours 15 yr and ex nursery worker on standby, and pay generously so they generally help if I ask.

In the meantime, congratulations.

Going to be blunt here - and I work in a traditional male dominant professional corporate job.... you need to change your mindset otherwise what was the point in having a child if you are going to place them in childcare until past 630pm 5 days per week

How do you manage childcare in a male dominated professional field (assume you have a child since you’re giving advice on this thread?) in a way that makes parenting meaningful and supports your child’s needs @usererror99 ? That would probably be more useful for the OP to know.

This isn’t what you want to hear, and you won’t be able to envision it yet, but your life now will have to change to accommodate a child and not the other way round.

It's very hard to be able to predict the emotions that come with having a baby. I talked about going back to work FT when I was pregnant but once dd was born the thought of being away from her for that long was unfathomable.

My dd slept 7pm until 7am so if you are working long days there's a risk you might not see much of your baby very much at all.

That said if you do want to go back FT in your situation a nanny would be the better option.

Hello @Ceramic272 congratulations. I am in a similar industry and suggest planning for getting a nanny for the first year and then see how you go. Yes it’s expensive but if you think of it as on year and then reassess (whilst also putting baby on the list for nurseries) then you can see if you can work some flexibility into your role. Believe me I know it’s very difficult to leave the office on time. Especially when your clients may be in different time zones. Also : I do think we need to remember that if we keep our foot in the door at work our pay goes up eventually and nanny costs also ease up - so overall (long term) it may be worth it. Best of luck.

@Ceramic272 please don’t listen to the people who say what was the point in having a child if they’re in childcare !! Don’t get me started. We picked a career path when we were young. This is our profession. We work so that we can afford to buy a house that our children can inherit one day. We work to put food on the table. This is the profession. Yes some flexibility of course will be needed but we just have to cater for the possibility of emergencies at work and we need good quality childcare. It doesn’t mean that we don’t do drop off or spend the whole weekend holding our babies so don’t even spend one minute letting somebody who doesn’t have any idea what our profession can be like make you feel guilty.

We took it in turns to be ‘responsible’ for the morning / evening drop / pick up but it wasn’t really sustainable with 2 serious coroporate jobs. My OH went down to 3 days a week and we’ve just had another so I think he’ll take a couple of years off entirely. Two serous jobs and kids is tough!!

Lots of after hours nannies near us in London who pick up from nursery and keep til 7-8 so saves you paying alllll nanny hours. Put on a local Facebook group are there any wraparound nannies who pick up from nursery's

@Morred totally agree with this! My eldest is 7 and it’s a different ballgame when they’re bigger (much easier to outsource baby stuff vs emotional descriptions of their day when they’re bigger and someone wasn’t being very nice to them at school etc)

I know someone who's a Barrister and now a sessional Judge. She's survives on coffee and air, gets about 4/5 hours sleep, tries to be there for her children but relies heavily on her husband to do the bulk of the childcare- drop offs/pickups, homework, etc. how she hasn't collapsed yet from her load, I have no idea.

Are grandparents on the scene? Can you get them to step in?