Funded hours query

[JBOH2020]

Just after some advice please.

I've received my childcare bill for my daughter who is 3 and will receive her 30 funded hours as of January. Unable to speak to childminder as it is her week off, but will speak to her next week.

She will be having 15 hours funded in a school nursery (over 2.5 days), and 15 hours in a childminders 2 days a week. However will be at the childminders for 29.5 hours a week in total (before and after nursery for 1 day, and for 10 hours a day Thursday and Friday.

I have just received my bill and for the total amount of hours she will be there unfunded is 14.5 a week. And my weekly bill is £117.50 which to me seems a lot given before the funding I've been paying £170 a week.

Does this seem right? I know it's difficult to judge as depends on area and top up fee of whatever the government pay childminders etc and I have no issue in paying it as my son is happy there but I just expected more of a saving?

Seems right.

Thank you

I don't know if this info below helps at all. It's the breakdown of how the nursery my child goes to depending of what days he would do. They charge something like £69 per day with no funding. Are you also using the a tax free account? That reduces your bill too.

3 full days
Fees: 3 x £69 x 52 weeks / 12 months = £897
Funding from September = 30 hours x 38 weeks = 1140 hours / 12 months = 95 hours per month
£69 full day rate / 11 hours = £6.2727
Funding total per month = 95 hours x £6.2727 = £595.91
Quality Premium is £1 per funded Hour = £95.00
Calculation: £897 - £595.91 + 95 = £396.09 per month

2 full days and 2 half days
Fees: £221 per week x 52 weeks / 12 = £957.67
Funding = £595.91
QP = £95
Calculation: £957.67 - £595.91 + 95 = £456.76 per month

2 full days and 1 half day
Fees: £179.50 per week x 52 weeks / 12 = £777.83
Funding = £595.91
QP = £95
Calculation: £777.83 - £595.91 + 95 = £276.92per month

2 full days. This would be Quality Premium only @ £95.00 per month

Thank you, I worked out how much his hours are at the usual hourly rate minus the funded hours for the month and there's a £230 difference. I do use tax free childcare so happy there is a saving there, I just thought there would be more of a saving but oh well. I think I'll ask for a breakdown of how the pricing is worked out as I just get given a bill with dates and price, no run down of costs.

Yeah good idea to ask for a breakdown. Have they both said that they are OK with sharing the funding? As some don't do it.

Some facilities split the 15 free hours over the year meaning you get 12h a week and they don’t cover for food, nappies and certain “extra” activities which are not linked to the government curriculum eg baking, trips out etc and so often their is an extra charge on top of the free hours. Ours didn’t work out to be much of a saving unfortunately.

If she's having him before and after nursery then she will be losing out as can't have another one unless they only use hours he isn't with her. She would still need to count him in her ratio before and after nursery so would be unlikely to be able to fill the hours between

Yes it sound correct. Almost 45 hours in two different childcare settings is far too long though. If you reduce the hours you will also save money.

Sorry should have explained better

I don't work a Monday so she will spent 3 hours at school nursery Monday pm
Tuesday (partner can take to nursery) 9-3 school nursery, 3-5.30 pm at childminders whilst I finish work
Wednesday 7.30-9 am childminders, 9-3 school nursery, 3-5.30pm childminders whilst I finish work
Thursday 7.30am-5.30pm childminders
Friday 7.30am- 5.30pm childminders (Thurs & Friday 15 hours of funded hours used at childminders)
Where I am childminder and school nursery are happy to split funding.
Childminder I send all nappies and food & snacks.
I under stand she'll be doing some school run for her so will need to pay fuel.

My understanding with the spaces, according to PACEY if children age 3 are attending a school based nursery and they are providing before and after school nursery care, they don't count towards numbers.
But I can imagine this may be it, as last year when she didn't attend a the childminders for a Thursday each week, I still had to pay for this day as childminder could not fill the space, whether this is right or wrong I do not know.

But like I said I'm going to get a costing run down so I know where I stand.
Once my daughter is settled I think from September 2025 onwards I'll get her to have her 30 hours at school nursery and use before and after school club for the hours needed there.

I've just got to suck it up in the meantime

If I was holding a space while your child was in nursery I'd be charging you the hours in between drop off and pick up as I can't sell it and every time the school closes early you would need childcare.
Why wasn't the charge discussed on booking?

The ratio applies if a child is taking the full 30 hours at nursery ....bare in mind schools shut 14 weeks a year plus nursery shut for home school meetings, inductions that are staggered, early finishes at end of term. My school has shut afternoon nursery for an additional 14 sessions in the last academic year on top of the 14 weeks holiday and training days. Wrap around is not available before year 1 where I am as they cannot meet the ratio required for eyfs assuming a 3 year old would feel comfortable with 11 year olds running around.

If your CM is doing morning and afternoon wrap around, there's a possibility you then need to pay for the hours in between as she can't take an extra child then. Also, if little one is ill at nursery, would you go collect or would the CM?

The child would need to be doing the full 30 hours in a school based nursery to be classed as a rising 5 in regards to ratio’s

Your child will still be taking up an EYFS space. Your childminder may charge set fees for before/after school. It’s best to ask her how she’s worked it out

Don’t forget funding is only 38 weeks per year. Some childminders devide the annual amount by 12 for an even amount each month. Does the figure include the non term time weeks ?

No its term time only, then in school holidays I pay a different daily rate.
I've had it broken down now anyway, I get the 15 hours funding for at the childminders but pay for 25 per week, for all other hours and when at school nursery during the week. So I'm about £70 better off a week. Still a bit rubbish but is what it is.

The issue is your childminding can only have a certain number of under fives. So on the days ahead is doing before and after school care unless she finds someone who's hours slot in with your hours she's losing out financially. It's likely she's charging a higher rate to compensate for this. Plus the fact the funded hours are usually significantly lower paid than hour fee.

Would you be better off if your child did the full 30 hours at nursery and before/after school club? Our school club is £70 a week.

Sounds like a stressful set up to be honest. Your childminder isn't being unreasonable charging, but you might find another that offers wraparound has a child say 9 to 3 so can just charge you for the hours you use. The funded hours are bloody confusing though, spent ages trying to work it out when DS got them- sounds about right though all into account, invariably it's never as good as it sounds for various reasons.

I completely understand the reasoning behind it, although she is charging me for hours she cannot have my daughter in the morning and take to nursery on 1 day per week (she has too many children to mind) so I don't agree with that.
Yes absolutely I'd be so much better off, breakfast and after school club would be £12 per day so very much a saving. My plan is as she's not long turned 3, I think we will stick to childminders until September and let her get settled into nursery, then discuss school holiday only contract and put her in breakfast and after school club. My childminder does not do any emergency pick ups etc, that's solely down to me and husband.

Emergency pick ups from school are normally down to your child either being hurt or ill. So no a childminder will not look after a sick child either due to having a responsibility to make sure illness’s aren’t spread to other children and if they have hurt themselves badly enough to be sent home then a childminder’s setting isn’t a suitable place to be either.

If you want to save money why not use the childminder for the full 30 hours

She's been going to the same childminder since 10 months old and my older daughter goes before and after school. Although she enjoys the childminder, I feel she's ready to experience nursery now. I'll re evaluate in a few months, her happiness is the main thing.