Letting very new nanny go - how much ntoice or no notice?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

Oh, this HAS kicked off.
My View is:-
1 Lisalisa hates being an employer, and wouldn't do it at all if circumstances allowed otherwise. I'm firmly in her camp.
2 She hates the idea of confrontation, and is afraid that Nanny may become confrontational. I suspect she may be right.
3 The kids do not need any further contact with this nanny, and certainly don't need to hear her arguing with their mama. Impossible that they won't notice a rumpus unless the lisalisa houshold lives in a house the size of Windsor Castle.

Personally, I would telephone her today and say her services are no longer required. I WOULD pay her a weeks notice, but that would be so I could use it to tell her not to come back (a cheque which could be cancelled if she cuts up rough), and I would detail the reasons for curtailing the arrangement IN A LETTER, which she is given as she leaves the house. I agree tho' she needs to know why you want her to go, just not have the opportunity to argue about it.

BTW did she come to you via an agency? Should they be told why she doesn't fit the bill.

I would sit her down, say that for various reasons you don't think it is working out because she and you obviously have different approaches to childcare and discipline, and then I would probably pay her a week or maybe even 2 (if I'd taken her out ofa job) in lieu of notice and say goodbye.

I would find it very difficult to only pay 2 days notice because I think that is quite tough - she may be crap etc but she has bills to pay etc and although she may possibly find temporary work in a week she is unlikely to find anything in two days. But that is just me, perhaps. You need uwila to give you the hardline approach - I represent the softie employer's approach!

Oh now I've just read the thread and see everyone (well not everyone obviously) is giving LL a hard time

I had to fire a nanny in the summer after 2 weeks. She was shouty and had a horrible attitude to the children, but she made life easy for me by then leaving my 18mth old alone in the garden with a full paddling pool . So I sacked her for gross negligence. We had a talk about it - she was very mature about it and horrified by what she'd done and completely understood why I'd sacked her. But I didn't deal with the shouting and being horrid to 3 year olds because (a) I couldn't face it and (b) I didn't need to because of hte paddling pool and (c) I didn't want to kick her when she was down.

I gave her a week's money but I had a contract saying first 4 weeks was a probation period with a weeks notice. Actually I could have given her no notice legally, since it was gross negligence and she endangered my child, but I didn't feel that was fair somehow.

Deal with it however feels right for YOU lisalisa - we don't know your personality nor that of your nanny - I would give her SOME reasons (to cover yourself legally apart from anything else) but I wouldn't feel the need to go into specifics. Of course if you got her from an agency I WOULD be specific to them (as I was about this nanny I fired) - so that they know what your concerns are and can place her or not accordingly.....

best of luck!

Wakeuppeople - as it seems that your post is aimed at me - I really would ask what you find bullying about my suggestions to LL.

I have cut and pasted my post below, I just cannot see how it could be construed as bullying?

dejags on Sun 02-Mar-08 08:38:34
Poor you Lisa. What a foul situation to be in.

Although I don't agree with the way she said it - BecauseImWorthIt has some valid points.

I can't agree that you are being cowards though - just trying to make the best of a crappy situation.

Having said that:

It is your responsibility as an employer to ensure that you tell her why you are sacking her. There is no need to delve in the workings of her personality. It would be easy enough to tell her what your specific issues are without attacking her.

How about this:

We need to chat (make sure both you and DH are there).

Things don't seem to be working out, so we have decided to terminate the agreement.

Unfortunately we feel, having observed you with our children for two weeks that there is a personality conflict with you and X (4 year old). Additionally we feel that our parenting style is at odds with your nannying style, so we feel that it would be best all round to discontinue the arrangement.

We will give you one weeks' paid notice which we don't expect you to work out. Please can you sign the letter detailing this.

Have a nice day

dejags - I think it was me who was accused of being a bully, as it was me who said that they were cowards.

I have said sorry for being rather forceful in my posts, but I stand by everything I said.

WUP obviously finds this bullying...

You, on the other hand, were highly constructive, as far as I could see.

lisalisa seems to have gone but I will say my piece.

No contract so I think instant dismissal for the way she has been with the children is fine. Pay her 2 days. She won't be happy no, but then she should have been a nicer nanny. Sometimes your children really do have to come first.

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I agree. Try not to make it personal against the nanny but don't put your child down either by saying personality clash. (I am sure you won't) She is the adult afterall and she should be able to cope with anything a little child does.

Over the £££ - not sure she has a leg to stand on really

Lisalisa won't add to the advice about how to handle it, but just about the money. You mention that you can give her a cheque for more 'if she insists'.

She doesn't get to insist on more money. I would probably personally pay her a week but you certainly don't need to if you don't feel it appropriate, and given what you've said about her behaviour, it would be entirely justified and understandable to give her 2 days as you have planned. If that's what you decide, just give it her, tell her that's what you are giving her and say whatever you are going to say. If she argues or becomes nasty or demands more money, just ask her to leave, make sure you have someone with you.

Good luck

LL - it was never my intention to bully you - and even if my posts were a little forceful I doubt very much if they could be construed as bullying.

I also agreed with you, following your posts explaining more of what had been going on, that you did have reason to dismiss your nanny.

But I stand by my opinions, and believe strongly that you should be telling your nanny the reasons for your dismissal of her. There were two key things that you said which provoked my response:

"I won't be drawn on reasons etc as I don't want to tell her what we really feel"

"my dh says not to tell her why. he says it will only hurt her feelings and end up in a blame fest where we dissect her personality and she attempts to defend herself but we let her go anwya =thus making her feel more shittty. Should we not take an easy route out and say we have reviewed our palns etc"

You are obviously concerned about her feeling which is important, but also acknowledged yourself that it is taking the easy way out.

Anyway, that's my explanation. I'm glad you have got the advice that you need and I hope that it all works out for you and for the nanny - and that she gets the feedback to help her realise that her behaviour was unacceptable.

Do let us know what happened, LL

This woman has worked for you for two weeks. Your responsibilities towards her in terms of giving feedback on the basis of "helping her develop as a nanny" or whatever the phrase was have been totally exaggerated here. The only reason I would consider having a discussion along the lines of what some of the others posters described - and it's a good point - is because of the question of references. She could theoretically ask for one, although given the short time period I bet she doesn't.

On balance I'm going to take the contrarian view to what has been said here and say that your DH has a point, any discussion could become acrimonious if she really is a bit of a nutter - she will want examples of your 'different parenting styles' and I can see that going haywire. Don't go there. Tell her your plans have changed, but definitely pay her the week. You have to resist the temptation to stray from this story if a referee calls up though! But I'm betting you don't hear from anyone.

If she had done something genuinely dangerous - such as the pool incident soemone mentioned earlier - I would completely agree you had to spell it out. But this is more of a grey area, she sounds very defensive, and It hink you need to end it and move on.

Message withdrawn

Glad it's over Lisa. You have had a bit of rough ride on the childcare front lately. She definitely sounds like a bad apple.

For what it's worth I do think you should share sme tips on how anyone in your area might identify her -- within the limits of the law of course.

Perhaps she's making a good living doing two weeks work, being sacked, and then getting a months money in lieu of notice! Did she take the 4 days money in the end?

Glad you've got it all sorted though.

Phew. Glad she buggered off without scaring the children or MIL further.

lisalisa, you go girl! I liked how you stood your ground and kept cool. Top marks.

Also, the fact she did not ask for examples or details meant she already knew what you know and she was in it for the money and not for the children

Wishing you a better nanny the next time round.

glad you've sorted it now
but honestly, i have never employed a nanny (use nursery) but am thinking about it when DD1 starts school.

i am shocked how reasonable most of you are on this thread. no way would i pay any notice at all to some bitch who was treating my 4 year old like that.

i would tell her to leave immediately. GET OUT OF MY HOUSE AND AWAY FROM MY KIDS.

end of.

Oh god. I'm considering a nanny/childminder for some mornings (possibly - dependant on job interview). If I get this woman sent to me, I'll die!

oh nice .... "I want money if you're dismissing me without notice" .
I think I would have said "No, you want to learn how to do your job properly, and you want to get yourself some manners Lady."

I may well have followed that with "I was going to pay you 4 days notice, which is more than you are entitled to. BUT you have just talked yourself out of it. Please leave now"

Oooooh.

Now just tell us where you are in the country LL, then we can be wary about anyone in that area looking for morning work.

yes please do - if you took the kids to kew gardens for a day then you sound like you are in my neck of the woods... warning bells, please

Am very curious as to what her referees said about her. Interesting about her being different in interview - scary too.

Amida,
She is not in your neck of the woods.

Clumsymum's riposte is great! - but I wouldn't have had my wits about me to think of that. I think it is very interesting (ie suspicious) that Morning Nanny had her month's money demand all planned out. I bet you are so glad you had confirmed (inc. by posting here) your legal position before being faced with that.

When you find someone else, Ll, please promise me you'll expressly agree a trial period? - 4 weeks is usual, & any time within those 4 weeks either side can drop the arrangement with no (or let's say, for practicality's sake, 2 days') notice?