Letting very new nanny go - how much ntoice or no notice?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

What a vile girl you have described. Wonder how many other posts she has had and how her previous employers felt about her?

Someone like this has no business being a nanny and I can see why you want to get rid.

As much of an ostrich I would be in these same circumstances, I would agree with the other posters that you have to give reasons.

Having said that- not quite sure why, as some posters have said, she "deserves better" (your dcs deserve better) and that you should consider" her feelings" or worry about her self esteem.

Doesn't sound like she considers your dcs or MILs feelings at all.

What did her referees say about her? Has she got previous experience?

I echo what previous posters have said. You really ought to give a reason for the dismissal. However, if you really do insist upon avoiding examination of her personality, have you considered telling her that you have reassessed your childcare arrangements and that MIL will now be taking it all on?

Personally I would be upfront and tell her the real reasons because I think you owe it to her and any future decisions she may make regarding her employment. Secondly, although she has very limited employment rights at this point, I think it is one way of avoiding any comeback regarding any disagreements she may have with you regarding your decision.

Just spell it out to her and follow it up in writing. I would also suggest having a friend in the house just in case she does get nasty. Someone to help you close down the conversation and be a witness.

You don't get much luck, do you?

Poor you Lisa. What a foul situation to be in.

Although I don't agree with the way she said it - BecauseImWorthIt has some valid points.

I can't agree that you are being cowards though - just trying to make the best of a crappy situation.

Having said that:

It is your responsibility as an employer to ensure that you tell her why you are sacking her. There is no need to delve in the workings of her personality. It would be easy enough to tell her what your specific issues are without attacking her.

How about this:

We need to chat (make sure both you and DH are there).

Things don't seem to be working out, so we have decided to terminate the agreement.

Unfortunately we feel, having observed you with our children for two weeks that there is a personality conflict with you and X (4 year old). Additionally we feel that our parenting style is at odds with your nannying style, so we feel that it would be best all round to discontinue the arrangement.

We will give you one weeks' paid notice which we don't expect you to work out. Please can you sign the letter detailing this.

Have a nice day

BTW - I'd not give less than a weeks notice.

If it were me getting the sack (regardless of reasons), I would not be satisfied with a few days' pay on short notice.

LL, just sympathy really (lost the will to read all the thread)I think your first responsibility is to your children not this nanny.

She is an adult and a trained nanny to boot, surely at somepoint someone - presumably several years at college - has taught her how she should be looking after/speaking to children? One conversation with LL is NOT going to affect her nannying style in the slightest.

She sounds like an nasty piece of work and I would be wary of her too, sound vindictive if not a little unhinged.

Dejags is right about getting her to sign a dismissal agreement.

With regard to giving her notice... I'd suggest giving a Week's notice (and paying her for that week, so she goes immediately). If she had been with you for a month, then she would be entitled to a weeks notice (see Rights of Notice) but as she's only been with you for 2 weeks, you don't have to give a week, but to avoid any possible difficulties, I would give a weeks pay (with the proviso that she leaves immediately).

Note: A contract between you and your employee does exist at present. It is verbal. What does not yet exist is the Written Statement.

Sorry, I agree with the others that a review meeting is needed, where you briefly (don't get into specifics if you can avoid it) explain to her that she isn't the right nanny for you.

Can I ask about the interview process? Did your nanny spend any time with your children during the interview stages? Reason I ask, is that to me it seems that one of the problems is that she doesn't relate well to your children, may not be able to cope with an awkward child, isn't child centred (the part situation for example). For some reason you didn't pick that up at interview, so I'm wondering why... and by analysing that, it can help you to interview the next nanny.

With regard to having the chat with the nanny, I'd get MIL to supervise the children (even if that is sticking them in front of the TV for 15 minutes), so you can talk with nanny without disruptions.

agree with dejags and nannynick's approach.

lisalisa, your nanny sounds like a nightmare. I'd just be quite matter-of-fact about it. If she kicks off, imagine she is just a toddler, let it wash over you. You would have done the decent thing (more than she deserved) - over and out.

The "dismissal agreement" referred to would give you no protection at all.

Just tell her it is not working out, give her the letter confirming why and pay her off as a sweetener. And definitely have someone else there.

Lisalisa - thank you for explaining the difficulties so clearly. If it is at all helpful, I can suggest some wording for the exit speech? - as I do think other posters have a point in at least giving her something to try to understand (if she is going to try ... she may not be capable of that, I realise, but I think as an employer you do have to give her the benefit of the doubt there).

Dejags' suggestion of "differing parenting skills" is an ideal starting point.

I would say - "it really does seem to us that we have fundamentally different outlooks on how to look after children. We try not too expect more of them than we know they can manage [if she challenges this you can refer to the eggs incident]; and if there is ever a problem, we do our best to talk about it then and there only, and then move on, leaving the problem behind us [if she challenges this you can refer to the "never taking shopping again" remark]. I realise you may feel that this is not teaching a child what it needs to learn - but it is our way of parenting, and I'm sure you will see that we just do not see things the same way. So, I am sorry, but we need to end this arrangement now."

I think you will find that she is not unhappy to leave.

If parallel personal experience helps, I had to terminate a nanny arrangement after a week - and she did say "But WHY?" in a shocked voice, and I had marshalled my thoughts and so it was simple to say, "Well, you were an hour late your first day; now I realise that can happen to anyone as a one-off; but then, when the following day we had agreed you would take ds swimming, you turned up without your swimming things - and it was then clear to us that you were not taking the job the way we had expected you to." It was hard, but having the words ready was necessary.

I thought about this one long and hard before putting in my two penneth worth!

In view of how you feel, I would suggest that you handle this matter with the least line of resistance, and what makes it easiest for YOU.

That is to say, for all those posters who have "BULLIED" you in sugesting you "OWE" this nanny an explanation are just that...BULLIES!

They have no understanding of how you feel and the fact that this nanny has made your last 2 weeks a misery, does not seem to compute with them at all. As is often the case, for some reason see the perpatrator as the victim here!

Would suggest a weeks salary and what ever reason you feel is going to make her go away without further turmoil to you and your family as the best course of action.

My thoughts are with you and don't let yourself be bullied by the "coward" name callers...

Bullies? Blimey, did you not get a mothers day card this morning. There has been no bullying here. Lisalisa asked a question and people have answered.

It is pretty clear to me that as an employer there are several things I have to do when terminating an employment contract. Being nice and not wanting to hurt people does not come into it. There is legislation, for heavens sake, which states that reasons for dismissal must be given. And even if it wasn't legally the right thing to do, morally it is the right thing to do.

Hmm ... not sure I'd describe my post below as bullying. But never been called a MN bully before, so that's a novelty.

In truth I think (going on my experience) if Lisalisa has her speech ready it's going to be easier for her. Which, incidentally, is neatly coincident with best practice as an employer. But I was thinking of Ll first & foremost.

The thing I don't think Ll has any responsibility for (and is possibly part of the confusion about giving reasons vs. not giving reasons) is explaining to this girl her basic unfitness to be a nanny (as opposed to why this particular position did not work out). The bigger picture is a realisation the girl's got to come to by herself, and Ll does not at all need to feel a duty to set that out.

Will try and keep this succint. Firstly, I'm really sorry that you've had a rough time of it with your nanny. It must be hellish. To be fair, I'm sure she's not the she devil, just not cut out to be a nanny!

I do think that you have a responsibility to tell her her shortfalls. What happens when she asks you to be a referee for another family, or even once the agency/ family call you directly? At least by being straight up with her she'll be leaving without any misunderstanding as to the fact that you didn't find her a good match to your requirements. I think there's several good posts on here advising you on how to say the words 'softly'.

Good luck

Lisa, you and your children are in a rotten situation, and I'm very sorry for you. I can understand your reluctance to say as little as possible to the nanny, but you do need to tell her why you're sacking her.

She may end up having no idea of how unacceptable her mad behaviour is, and continue to be vile to children. Maybe if enough people tell her what a loon she is, it might sink in, and she'll at least curb her hystrionics or, better still, grow the fk up.

And unless she has keys to return, I would just do it over the phone, and pay her as little as you can get away with. You sound very kind, but I think it's better not to spare her feelings. Keep the kids as well out of earshot as possible and keep it brief in the room nearest the front door.

Good luck.

Lisa - Can i ask why you didn't tell her on Friday?

At least then she would have had the weekend to start looking for something else.

I too think that you should pay her a weeks salary and tell her that you are asking her to leave because of a personality clash and the children don't seem to be happy- which is all any parent really wants.

just give her a weeks notice,just say its not working out ,say your kids are not happy with her.it sounds like she does not really u8nderstand young children when i read yout post i thought arr when you said how she reacted to your kids,does she really like kids.i used to be a nanny,and i loved my jobs.didnt mean to sound bossy!!!.

Strange definition of 'bully' ...

Wow Wakeuppeople!! I actually think it's you who has misinterpreted the advice offered to LL.

There has been NO bullying, just constructive advice.

Although maybe some of it was a bit forceful! (Sorry, LL)

If calling someone a coward or taking the lazy option is not bullying then YES I have misinterpreted the situation and I retract my statement...I think not!

Most "constructive" advice seems to feature around the "poor" hard done by employee. Who possibly could really be dismissed immediately, with no notice period for gross misconduct.

However the "Employers" of this world would rather debate, cogitate and send her on a two week all expenses paid rehabilitaion course for poor nannies that seem to have lost their way in this highly stressed, overworked and underpaid nanny world.

Harsh words but true, most of the advise is to "do the right thing", right in who's opinion?

This poor mum is obviously very distressed as to how she, her children and other members of her family have been treated. She is not as some would prefer her to be in taking the "managerial" approach to this employment, but just another mum that had hoped someone would care for her children in her absence as well as she would.

Compassion would be more appropriate and not hiding behind the guise of "constructive advice" - "You must tell her why...etc etc"

Sorry, but I speak as I find, and very little constructive advice was offered by SOME posters.

If you feel so strongly you are right, why name change? Why not offer some constructive advice of your own?

Wakeuppeople you really haven't got a CLUE have you?

WUP - I'm sorry, but Lisalisa is in a mangerial position. She is employing someone.