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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

What happens with paying a nanny when your plans change?

23 replies

MabelEstherAllen · 28/06/2023 11:05

We have a PT nanny, who works around 85 hours per month. I'm a widow with 3 children, no family support, and erratic self-employed working hours. When I hired our nanny, I explained that the most important thing to me is flexibility - I needed a candidate who is able to accommodate fairly last-minute changes in our arrangements. I also need someone who is flexible over the summer holidays, and able to take on extra hours or to change the usual hours around. (Usually she works after-school shifts on 3 days, but I suggested that it would be more useful if she could do full days during the summer holidays).

Our nanny is great, and I have no concerns about her skills or care for the children. But she's less flexible than she initially indicated. I have a question about what the usual practice is when the employer has to make changes to shifts. A few months ago, she wanted me to commit to our plans for the summer holidays. I found it hard to make plans so far in advance but I guessed that we would be away in one particular week (for which we would still pay her, our of the employer's allocation for holiday allowance), and that we would be at home the following week (when I'd like her to work her usual hours). Now our plans have unavoidably changed, and those weeks have been swapped around. It's still 6-7 weeks until those dates occur. Our nanny is saying that she can't accommodate our changes, and she's expecting to still be paid for the week when we were going to be away but now will be home (even though she says she can't work that week), and she's still expecting to be paid for the week when we were going to be home but now will be away. So essentially I'm paying her for 2 weeks, but getting no childcare out of it.

I was wondering if this is usual practice? (There are a number of other occasions when this is happening over the summer). For context, our nanny frequently requests one-off changes to her shifts, which I'm happy to accommodate if I can do so. When she cancelled a shift with 2 days notice, I said that we needed an agreement that she'd give me at least a month's notice if she changes any shifts. I'm wondering if other nanny-employers have an agreement about how much notice they have to give their nanny if their plans change around taking holidays? ie. if you tell a nanny that in a particular week you'll be away, but then those plans change and ideally you'd like the nanny to work during that week - is it just a case of sucking it up, and accepting that you'll have to pay them even if they can't work? or is there a period of notice within which you'd expect to have flexibility to change plans and ask the nanny to fit in with them (or, if they can't work, to take it out of their holiday allowance themselves or as unpaid leave)? I just want to do what's fair and usual practice.

OP posts:
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Danikm151 · 28/06/2023 11:07

I’d say 6 weeks is ample notice but if she’s booked something that can’t be changed then it’s annoying for her.

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 28/06/2023 11:14

It is a hard one… if she has booked a holiday, that may be difficult to change for her.

we were in a similar situation and found alternate childcare when our nanny was away. However, on the days we were away, we gave her a huge project which included assembly of ikea furniture for the children’s rooms, sorting of all toys and clothes, name tags, etc.

It was all within traditional nanny duties (nursery furniture debatable) and she actually quite enjoyed sorting everything out as it made her life going forward easier as well.

OhBling · 28/06/2023 11:15

Well, it sounds like she wanted to make summer holiday plans and did so based on your timing and therefore changing is not possible. I think you are being unreasonable to be upset about this. She may well have booked a holiday, paid for flights, made arrangements with family/friends to take leave etc.

Flexibility is great, of course, but sometimes employers take flexibility to a point at which the entitlement is ridiculous.

Also, FYI - you're not paying for no childcare. you have an employee who is entitled to paid leave, which she's taking.

gogomoto · 28/06/2023 11:16

Flexibility goes both ways. Obviously she wanted to book a holiday/trip hence asking you for your plans. Changing them is not fair on her

MabelEstherAllen · 28/06/2023 13:33

I'm not upset about it - I just wanted to know what's usual practice, and how many weeks/months in advance it's fair to be able for me to change plans (and still hope that she might be able to help us). It sounds like the consensus is that, once I've asked her to work on a particular date (or not to work), then I can't subsequently change my mind, even if I give her many months of notice - because she may well have made her own plans. And that's useful. Thank you.

OP posts:
MabelEstherAllen · 28/06/2023 13:37

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken that's a really good idea, to ask her to do some jobs in the children's rooms when we're not here. Thanks!

OP posts:
dammit88 · 28/06/2023 13:50

Its not many months of notice though - its six weeks. I think it would be normal to pay her as agreed in these circumstances.

MabelEstherAllen · 28/06/2023 14:05

@dammit88 sure. And I certainly am going to pay her as agreed, although I've followed @OhBling's suggestion of asking our nanny to help with sorting out the storage in the children's rooms on the dates when we'll now be away. My reference to "many months notice" is because I was wondering what usual practice is, going ahead. In the future, if I had to change my plans with many months of notice, would I still expect to pay her for the extra shifts I'd asked her to work? Anyway, the consensus seems to be that, once I've booked her, she's organised her life to fit, and it's not fair for me to unbook her - and that's useful for me to get clarity on this.

OP posts:
cyncope · 28/06/2023 14:13

It's not reasonable to give her a week's annual leave and then change your mind.

LadyofLansallos · 28/06/2023 14:18

I have just checked our policy at work & it says that if the company wants to change or cancel booked leave then you have to be given twice the notice of the length of the holiday.

yipeeyiyay · 28/06/2023 14:21

There are no hard and fast rules. Obviously if she has holiday commitments based on the dates you gave her then you can't expect her to change her plans. If you choose to go away a lot you would have to pay her regardless. Yes, find other tasks. If she's being paid it is reasonable take on tasks slightly outside the norm if you are away

Reugny · 28/06/2023 14:23

I use a childminder and nursery.

Nursery give out dated for the weeks they close in August for their summer holiday at least by Christmas.

Childminder gives her dates for her summer holiday at the latest by the end of May. (Childminder has adult children so only goes on holiday with her husband or to do a hobby.)

The reason your nanny asked the dates for your summer holiday well in advance is because school holidays are peak travel and holiday periods. So if she wants to go away herself or even go on some days out she needs to be able to book in advance.

yipeeyiyay · 28/06/2023 14:23

LadyofLansallos · 28/06/2023 14:18

I have just checked our policy at work & it says that if the company wants to change or cancel booked leave then you have to be given twice the notice of the length of the holiday.

That makes no sense. You mean if someone has booked a week holiday they only need to be given 2 weeks notice? We have always been in the situation where any financial burden will be borne by the employer if they change plans. So cancellation fees etc paid by the company

LadyofLansallos · 28/06/2023 14:27

yipeeyiyay · 28/06/2023 14:23

That makes no sense. You mean if someone has booked a week holiday they only need to be given 2 weeks notice? We have always been in the situation where any financial burden will be borne by the employer if they change plans. So cancellation fees etc paid by the company

Yes exactly that. If you’ve booked two weeks holiday you get 4 weeks notice. Never happened as far as I know!

Reugny · 28/06/2023 14:28

LadyofLansallos · 28/06/2023 14:27

Yes exactly that. If you’ve booked two weeks holiday you get 4 weeks notice. Never happened as far as I know!

That's because if you cancel employees holidays they tend to vote with their feet and it gets known in your industry that your organisation does that.

WeWereInParis · 28/06/2023 14:31

LadyofLansallos · 28/06/2023 14:18

I have just checked our policy at work & it says that if the company wants to change or cancel booked leave then you have to be given twice the notice of the length of the holiday.

That's been standard everywhere I've worked. I've never known them actually do though.

born2runaway · 28/06/2023 14:34

Do you pay her well?

Sounds like a really tough one. Yes you have asked her to be really flexible but in return for that, you should probably pay higher than average

She cannot keep herself free exclusively for you and then only be paid 85 hours pcm

GingerKombucha · 28/06/2023 14:54

With my nanny, if she can no longer work a week because she's on holiday, that would come out of her holiday allowance. She gets 5 weeks of holiday, I get to choose when 2 of those are and she gets to choose the other three. If she's not available for working, then it would come out of her three weeks of holiday she can choose. The next week would be one of the two weeks of her holiday that I can choose, though I usually go over these two and she just gets free/additional holiday then.

Maddy70 · 28/06/2023 15:20

You can't resonably expect anyone to drop their plans around yours without adequate notice if you change them within a short time frame you should pay her for those hours and give overtime payments for those additional hours you are asking. If she can do them

MabelEstherAllen · 28/06/2023 19:32

I'm not talking about cancelling her holiday - I wouldn't do that. What I was querying is that I'd initially booked her for extra shifts. Now, because our plans have changed (7 weeks in advance), I don't need her for those extra shifts or indeed any time that week. I asked if she had flexibility to work the following week instead (which is when we had initially planned to be away) and she said no, which is fine. So my question was whether I should still pay her for the extra shifts that I booked her for, but that which we no longer need. Consensus is yes, so that's what I'll do. I wouldn't ask her to cancel holiday that she had booked!

And yes, I do pay her well - much more than the going rate for our local area, and a larger holiday allowance too.

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 28/06/2023 19:39

Flexibility often mean you want all the time but not pay the whole time

Means she can't take on another job

Blondeshavemorefun · 28/06/2023 19:41

You either need to have set days and pay her for those days and hours

Or want flexibity but means she may do toner stuff if you have booed planned

She is owed holiday and if you said she could have that week off . She has no made plans and yes should be paid

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